Ra'am didn't object. And, in Spainish lands the traditional dinner would be 9-10pm. The history of the siesta goes back to Muslims ruling the peninsula. The custom stuck, because Spain is hot during the day, why not sleep? We can play it either way though, if I was the only one factoring a siesta into the timing of the meeting.]
"Honestly! You would continue this frivolity until the sun has set, and then what? Your impertinence not withstanding, your argument fails on it its face. If this meeting can be conducted in an hour, then it will be done. If your antics have caused it to be more than an hour, we will know who's actions caused that, won't we?"
[color=red]"It's all right," Cygna says, still visibly annoyed. [color=red]"You just caught me by surprise, and I reacted...well, I over-reacted, I think, and I apologize."
[color=red]"You are quite right, Ra'am. I apologize for my frivolity disrupting the solemnity of your Sabbath preparations." She looks around at the other newcomers. [color=red]"Amos has already voiced an opinion in favour of Ra'am and Azura signing the covenant. Does anyone have any reason why they should not be invited to do so, or any concerns that need to be addressed first, or anything else they would like to discuss on the matter?"
[OOC: ok, an hour. That's probably not enough time, and even if it were enough time, I'd say it's reasonable to say that 15 minutes have been used up to this point, definitely 10. Board meetings rarely finish in an hour, even with a well managed and executed agenda. And let's just say that doesn't appear to be the case in this council meeting. It's fun though, don't get me wrong! As a player, I love it. As a character Ra'am is gazing at Azura in a manner that makes Heims seem positively toasty, the argument is specious in his opinion.]
Azura straightens her back and folds her hands in her lap. Primly, she declares, "Nowhere in Leviticus is there any mandate to be stuffy and unbearable prior to Shabbat. Shabbat is a time for rest and relaxation, for enjoying the company of family and friends-- which is what I'm doing, and which you are welcome to join in. We are not of Rome, where faith is a thing to be mourned and feared, instead of loved and celebrated."
"Do you see my family here? Friends, yes, but family, no. I am not being stuffy I am being expedient." It's apparent Ra'am has more to say, but is more interested in moving business forward to finish as quickly as possible.
Hiems doesn't take badly Azura's prank, perceiving it as a tentative to have fun and some smile. People need to laugh and to live (He doesn't consider himself as "people", obviously).
Yet, when cygna reacts badly, he understands her, too. In a way, his reaction would have been quite similar, with Azura breaking his peace of mind...
Now now now, there's an idea. He looks at cygna and ponders. She talked to him about the spirit plaguing her. But there was that bit earlier with Ra'am, about hearing worse things, with the hidden pain behind. What happened to her?
More and more, he feels like cygna harbors a pain of her own, empathizes, and feels compeled to protect her. It's like with the covenfolk: He knows pain and loss, and he doesn't want people to feel it. It's too late for him, the best he can do is to make do and ignore what he can't have, but if he can help others to feel some mesure of happiness, if he can protect them, he will.
Turning his gaze to Ra'am, Hiems looks at him, as dispassionate as ever
This is a simple matter. You've got the same choise we all had, and, as far as I'm concerned, having signed just a few days before your arrival, we have no right to change Jaime's deal for you. The decision is up to you, not to me, Cygna, Viscaria or Amos.
You came before Azura, so you should make it before a decision is taken, for her case is different.
OTOH, Ra'am and Azura jew thingies escape him completely.
Responding to Heims, "He asked for the vote, though. I have agreed to his request. I'm waiting for other council members to affirm or deny my membership, as Amos has already done, and I presume Jamie has implicitly done by accepting my voting sigil."
[quote="The Fixer]
Turning his gaze to Ra'am, Hiems looks at him, as dispassionate as ever
This is a simple matter. You've got the same choise we all had, and, as far as I'm concerned, having signed just a few days before your arrival, we have no right to change Jaime's deal for you. The decision is up to you, not to me, Cygna, Viscaria or Amos.
You came before Azura, so you should make it before a decision is taken, for her case is different.
Amos coughs a couple of times into his now disgusting handkerchief. Grimacing at it while he tucks it away, he looks up at the fuming Ra'am and tries to catch his attention. "Umm, Ra'am, it's okay, I mean - I know what you mean, I mean I don't really but he knows...argh." Amos stops his rambling and breathes. "That was Hiems way of implicitly affirming your membership, mate. Jamie's asking for a vote because he doesn't know how we think yet - I can only imagine what it would've been like if one of his family had been of Criamon's lineage. I mean, dang it, sorry Jamie," Amos bobs his head at the archmagus. "We're all in agreement with your offer extended to Ra'am as it was extended to us - I don't think we're going to block anybody who's willing to give you their sigil for the next Tribunal for membership - well, not anymore, anyways." Amos blushes. "We're all on the same page on that issue at least." Turning back to Ra'am, "This covenant is accepting of all spiritual paths, and Jamie seems to be aware of our... quirks, but the rest of us are still new and we don't. Please teach us or talk to us before becoming angry with us and our pace - I actually like the relaxed informality. Its very different from the Militant Covenant I'm used to. If I learned anything from Serrano, it's that I need to listen and learn first. But that's me digging up old news again." Amos quickly shakes his head. "You'll have to tell me about this whole Shabbat thing later - I don't have issues talking on Sundays after Mass, just keeping with the Fast on Wednesday, Friday, Lent, and... well, you get the idea."
"Yeah, since you're not turning over voting sigil, I think the Aegis sounds like an equitable trade. And don't get me wrong, I think having a Mercare House here would help us re-grow, and Jamie, I think it would help you gather and talk to people about your goals, but this whole 'Phoenix interests are Mercare interests and vice versa,' that gets scary real fast." Amos's face grows stern for a moment. "I'm all for religious acceptance here, but I don't know want Mercare embroiled in its spread across the entirety of Iberia, and I don't want the idea of religious tolerance buried under Mercare commerce and magi trafficking. God's Church (you can hear the capital C) may be wrong, but there's no way God's acceptance and forgiveness will be accepted by any heathens, no offense all, unless it comes with outstretched hand instead of sword or coin." Amos suddenly realizes he's been talking a very long time, pulls out his handkerchief, poorly pretends to sneeze into it, and ducks his head back down. Everyone can hear him mutter to himself, "Stupid Templars. Stupid (C)hurch. Stupid damned (C)rusade." Amos sniffs.
"Amos, I have no anger towards you or any on this council. Not even Azura, although I am honestly annoyed with her, but perhaps not all of it is her fault. An hour is scant amount of time for typical council meetings, and by no means will this meeting be typical. I know Prospero, when he was in council, would be gone for many hours, sometimes the entire day, Aurelieus, too. To simplify my dilemna, the council is work, and normally I would not do work during Shabbat. I do this now, because I must, and have little choice, if I'm to be accepted as a member and then go on to do greater good for all the people here. If I am accepted as a member, I'd ask that we schedule meetings on Thursdays to avoid issues relating to the Jewish sabbath moving forward. However this meeting time was set, and I did not feel inclined to push my relgious restrictions on my sodales at such an early stage. I appreciate Archmagus Lannister's attempt to move the meeting time to an hour before sunset. However, as I see it, we have much to discuss, and already 1/4 an hour has nearly passed us by.
Matters for the consideration of the council, based on my experiences yesterday, involve selection and assigning of sancta, discussion of vis sources, including assigning duties for collection, the dwarven contract problem, and then there is the offer from Azura. I find it unlikely that we will be able to conduct all this business within the remains of the hour, and there may certainly be more business than I listed. This is just what I know about. So forgive me, I wish to be expitious, so that I may stop breaking Shabbat as soon as I may, and join my family, who I have not seen in over a day due to some odd mystical effect I've experienced." Before you, you see a middle aged man (OOC looks 46, or as amul says, his old body, blah blah), who looks bone weary and tired.
[Just some OCC observations about Ra'am and his circumstance, as a way to convey the emotion he's trying to convey now. He is weary from a month of travel (yes, he had a week of rest amongst family and friends in Salamanca, but tha'ts not home for a Magus). He arrives, and has a pleasant conversation with Claudia (no Magi greet him when he arrives, and yes, he knows he wasn't exactly expected, but he did try and announce his arrival ahead of time, this is kind of grating on his Jerbiton sensibilities acquired from Aurelius). He has a mystical experience that he's certain breaks the bounds of time based on what was said and then later his inability to cross the regio boundary when everyone returns to Cijara. He's suddenly introduced to the magi of the covenant, (one of whom runs away for no reason, one who doesn't introduce herself, one who tries to hide in the corner, and one who sneezes all over him). He begins exploring the sancta with them, because he is told he has no choice but to stay with them during the mystical experience. He is shown to the library and he investigates the vis sources, which they hadn't done (I know that there are reasons that the player couldn't do it, still a game effect of having a newcomer do all this) then researches the dwarven contract issue. He probably didn't sleep any, or if he did, just a little and restlessly. Only when he's almost reached his goal, does the council meeting descend into frivolity while the question of his membership hangs in the balance. He hasn't seen his family in over 24 hours[1], and while he's fairly sure they're safe, it's not the same as being there. And, since we're in a bath house, we're probably barefoot, and if we aren't, in an hour Ra'am will be. Let's further say that it has not been tiled, and is a smoothed stone surface, still a natural surface, certainly qualifies as bare earth. Ra'am is grounded (restriction: touching bare earth without shoes) and can't do magic. Imagine how your Magus might feel if they couldn't work magic... Put me in a similar situation and I think I'd be a raving basket case, but hey, he is a Magus, this is how they roll.]
"If there is no objection to my interpretation of Heims intent, I'll take that as a yes, and so only Viscaria's vote remains before I'm admitted and we can move forward with the all the business at hand."
[1]Let's never do time travel again. Ra'am was transported from the time of the council meeting (we'll say that it had been moved in the previous timeline, too) to Thursday morning. I'd say it is very safe to say that he couldn't cross the regio boundary until such time as his timelines reconverged, so he couldn't run into himself. This also presumes (which makes sense) that the Library and Council chambers are on the Phoenix side.
After the meeting, Azura will explain: "The Lord rested on the seventh day, and so we rest. Saturday is the seventh day of the week, so that is the Sabbath (which is itself a Latinization of the Hebrew word 'shabbat'). The only reason your faith observes it on Sunday is that when Emperor Constantine established Christianity, he blended it with his own pagan beliefs, himself a worshipper of Sol Invictus, the Roman personification of the sun. He felt that moving the Sabbath to Sol's day would allow the Christian faith to lend power to Sol Invictus, who was in all likelihood a powerful fae, that did in fact benefit from human belief in Christ bolstering his own rites." (OOC: this is actually true, with the exception of Sol Invictus being a fae, of course.)
"Don't misunderstand-- the Aegis would be in exchange for the establishment of the Mercer House, not my membership. And the vis for said Aegis won't be coming out of my own pocket, though it would cost you less than market value. No -- for my own membership, in lieu of my physical sigil (the use of which would be an egregious disrespect to the members of my House), you would instead have my efforts towards... shall we say, "enjoying the rewards of a mutually beneficial relationship with the Redcaps of Iberia."
Azura's face becomes visibly clouded with anger. "You will not dare pretend for a single moment that religious tolerance is more important to you than it is to me. It is illegal to use a crossbow... against Christians. It is common practice for Crusades to be kicked off with a good old fashioned pogrom at the ghetto. Want to gather together men to go take back the Holy Land? Just run out in the streets and preach about the depravity of Jews, and after the mob comes in and kills our men, rapes our women, and forcibly converts our children, everyone's appetites are whetted for a good old fasioned Crusade!
"Have you ever been approached by a child and been asked to remove your hat so he could see your horns? Has a man ever torn off your skirt on a public street in broad daylight because he wanted to show everyone your bifurcated tail? Have you ever seen YOUR sisters and brothers forced to commit idolatry on threat of seeing their children murdered before their own eyes if they didn't declare a false messiah some magical fleshly personification of Elohim Adonai? ...Committed said idolatry, only for the Crusader to laugh as he cut your four-year-old cousin's throat anyway? If you can truthfully answer any of those questions in the affirmative, then, ONLY then, you may extemporize on the dangers of allowing a Jew to pervert your highfalutin ideals for a peaceful Iberia with OUR use of sword and coin. And if your answer to all my questions is no?" She crosses her arms across her chest with a disgusted expression on her face, "You should seriously consider how appallingly inappropriate everything you just said was, and consider your words more carefully in the future."
Amos does not see the disgusted expression on Azura's face. He closes his eyes as soon as she states "good old fashioned Crusade" and he listens to her tirade in absolute stillness. After she finishes he continues to sit there for a moment, and then finally answers, with eyes closed,
"Yes."
He opens his eyes and looks at her face. "Not yes to all, but to a good bit of that. I'm sorry, I'm sitting in council and I seem to have forgotten to introduce myself. Upon my gauntlet, I took upon myself the title and name of Magus Constantine Amos to honor the city I was born in - Constantinople. I have no love for Crusades either. As usual, I've let my tongue blunder. I don't care if it's Jew, Islam, Christian, or demonic. No force, sword, coin, magic, I don't care what. Ever. Has. The. Right. "
Cygna looks around the table, particularly at Ra'am and Azura. [color=red]"Does anyone have any objection to us finishing with the question of Ra'am and Azura's applications, then adjourning until...say, tomorrow night or Sunday afternoon or Monday to address the rest of the council's business?"
Cygna looks at Azura with a look on her face.
[color=red]"The Covenant of the Phoenix, Cijara Manor and our whole demesnes exists for main purpose aside from the obvious Hermetic. To give Succor to those who need it, to give refuge to any who seek it, especially in this day when we are surrounded by religious warfare. But I respectfully ask that we not bring that warfare inside our walls, let alone into our Council chamber. Azura, my heart goes out to you for what you've suffered for your faith, but I do ask that we all choose our words with care when discussing the topic. For example, I disagree with you when you say that the fleshly personification of Elohim Adonai is idolatry and not the Messiah, and I would not mind a civilized and respectful discussion with you on the subject some time...but this is not the time or the place to make such a claim, or to have that discussion. I agree that we need to wrap up discussion of the Council business at hand...before nerves get any more frayed."
Cygna's eyes narrow as she balls her fists tightly and clenches her jaw. [color=red]"Excuse me?" she says coldly. Those who have known her since her arrival have seen her fly off the handle in a momentary tantrum, but not seen a look of such absolute fury on her face before. [color=red]"Would you care to explain what you mean by that, Constantine Amos of Flambeau?"
"Excuse me, if I'm out of order, but you looked at me as you said that, so I guess you're asking my permission. I am content to conduct business at hand now, to have it done with. I appreciate the offer, but I think there is sufficient amount of work that must be done quickly, decisions to be made, that we shouldn't delay."
[OOC: I'm metagaming this a bit, I'll be honest. Unless someone can see it differently, I think adjourning is a bad idea. If we adjourn and wait for the Sabbath to be over, it gets us to Saturday after sunset (first star visible). That interferes with Azura's participation in the Refugee thread a bit. And then she'd come back and report the party is in trouble with some demon and the Magi race out there (or we convince Amos to give up Corpus vis and she boosts us out there) to the rescue (something I'm ambivalent about). If we adjourn to Sunday, devout Christians may take issue, and then we kind of have to wait for resolution of the refugee thread (because adding people would certainly be discussed at a meeting, but may not be a big enough reason to call a meeting).]
I understand, say Hiems, and have no problem with this. I don't want to keep you appart from... your family. If everyone agrees, I propose we push back this council to monday, or after the mass.
A spike of jealousy, and lot of pain, and compassion, too. Ra'am has this extraordinary chance, and see to genuinely love his family, so Hiems would never put himself between them. But why would Ra'am cheat on his wife (the bit with cygna)? If this a jewish thing?
While christian, Hiems was never really observant, and the events of his past both distancied him from the church and made him angry towards god. He considered suicide, a terrible sin, and, at the time, would have been a prey of choice for any demon and diabolist, if he hadn't been protected by Clair de Lune's Aegis and by Goliath. Since then, he's calmed down an awful lot, but he still has difficulties with the church, attends mass very little, and has distanced himself from god as much as from everything else. To him, God only cares for his chosen ones, so, on this front, he's as alone as ever, and can't count on god's love and mercy any more than on anyone's love. He'd trust a lot more in the virgin mary, but is too depressive to really think about it.
(OOC: Slowest saga ever!!! We were down on days, now we're counting minutes... )
So long as you surrender your sigil to Jaime for the next tribunal, I have no say in this matter. So, consider that as a yes.
Then again, we agree.
And Hiems o_O
Thinking Well, at least, that's clear. There's some hope we may agree on some things for this covenant
Aaargh!!!
If only Azura would have stayed with the magi, we wouldn't have this problem
We should really avoid to have the same character appear in different thread in the future, this'd avoid a lot of similar problems.
[color=red]"Well, if you have no problem, and Azura has no problem..." Cygna glances at Azura as she pauses for confirmation, [color=red] "then let us press on and finish the meeting as quickly as we can."
[OOC, I'm going to presume Viscaria says yes, and act as if she had. She'd already offered to help build him a lab, so a yes is not unreasonable to accept, and as I indicated in the 2.5 OCC thread, I think we need to move forward a bit, and I'm tired of playing Ra'am with no council voice at 56 posts into the thread. And if you don't like how long this post is, well, should've made Ra'am a member of the council earlier! ]
"Thank you for allowing me to join the council. He says as he takes his seat at the table. "I will serve this council as if you are my brothers and sisters. I know that there are times that we may disagree, but let us not forget that we came to Phoenix, above all others, because it offered the best home for us. It is a place for us to preserve that which we find important. Arabic scholarshipl, religious diversity and tolerence are all ideals we uphold. And commerce, are not the wines of Cijara, rennowned?
"Archmagus Lannister, I present you with my voting sigl." Ra'am removes a ring from his right hand and hands it to him. "If there is a vote at Tribunal that I am interested in and it does not conflict with your plans, would you cast it as I direct? Typically these are matters that interest only House Bonisagus, research, etc.
"Let us discuss this offer of Azura's, since it is pressing for her admittance to the council. She appears to offer us an Aegis of 6th magnitude in exchange for the establishment of a Mercere House, and a seat on the council. She then clarifies the offer, that the seat on the council is not because of the Aegis, but to enjoy some abstract concept of goodwill of the Redcaps. Goodwill of the Redcaps is obviously something we can enjoy by paying them silver, vis, or other things that Redcaps value. No, this offer is no offer at all. If she wants a seat at the council, she must offer something of concrete value, such as the casting of the Aegis at no charge to Phoenix for as long as the Mercere House is here. Note, she said Mercere House interests are Phoenix House interests, and vice versa. I suggest that way to prove that is to cast the Aegis, supplying all the Vis necessary for the ritual. It is quid pro quo. Additionally, the only thing she hints at in her offer that is of concrete value is that she knows a 6th magnitude Aegis spell. We do not know if she's been able to account for the warding effect..." Ra'am then goes deep into Magic Theory, Artes Liberales and Philosophie pulling out questions which underscore how difficult a 6th magnitude warding effect really is. "And to me, since I have a family here, and since we are responsible to the covenfolk for their safety, the warding effect is VERY important. Pixies and house fairies spoiling milk and food, causing other mischief, demons causing disease, these are all things that we can and should ensure aren't affecting our covenfolk. Without even knowing the Aegis of the Hearth spell now, with some help from an assistant and a decent lab, I could invent a 4th magnitude Aegis, and have a reasonable chance of warding to a 4th magnitude, without any communion. Because a 4th magnitude warding efect only requires..." and he goes off on a quick explanation of how he'd overcome certain problems related to the 4th magnitude warding effects."If we take another season, I could learn the Wizard's communion spell, while someone learns it in the first season, and together we'd have enough to assure a 4th magnitude warding effect, without Azura's offer.
"No, this is not a credible offer. Sweeten the deal, prove you can do the warding effect to the same magnitude as the Aegis. Agree to pay for the vis costs of the Aegis for as long as the Mercere House is here, in an act of good faith that Phoenix interests are Mercere interests. Only then will I have no problem with admitting you to the council without you turning over your sigil. And allowing Magi not of this covenant to commune with you to get the desired warding effect is not something I'm comfortable with, hence not part of the deal. This would mean that they could invite Magi, faeries or other beings we don't know into our Aegis, and that is not something I'm comfortable with."
Cygna looks puzzled. [color=red]"Am I understanding that you feel that, in order to become a member of the Phoenix, Azura should agree to pay the vis costs of our Aegis castings out of her own pocket, indefinitely?" Cygna looks at Azura, who (judging by the OOC posts) is probably looking absolutely livid.
[color=red]"I honestly don't feel that a lifetime vis payment is equivalent to the use of my sigil for one tribunal."
look on her face.
)
]