Antoine of Verditius (Development)

  • You do earn Exposure from Lab Work, as it is a separate isolated activity removed from the abstract.
  • For Experimentation, the bonus is a Simple Doe, but there is also a roll for Extraordinary Results that I must enforce
  • Failed Apprentice also implies that you had the Gift at some point and you had been an apprentice to a magus; but for some reasom or somehow you gift became damaged or flawed or something. You have a partial or residue gift.
  • There is one more exception for Verditius magi. Forge Companions add +1 for every five points of their own Craft ability if it applies to the project.

Actually while there are many places where it states that a gifted assistant with magic theory can add to your lab total, but nowhere does it state that the person has to be gifted. Note under Magic Theory where it states "Anyoe can learn Magic Theory, if they have access to a teacher or a book, but it is little use to those without the gift."

Speaking o making stories interesting, what would anyone think of letting magic theory add to craft magic (for wonderous items only, not mundane excellent items), and further allowing that those touched by magic can act as lab assistants? This would encourage Donna to act as a lab assistant (and interact more with magi) in order to get experience in Magic theory... If not no big deal, I thought I would at least throw out the idea...

I just looked it up, and though it is true that the original wording in RAW can be construed ambiguously, let us choose to keep it reasonable. Lab Assistants that contribute yo your Lab Total are (for the most part) limited to the Gifted, Familiars, and those with the Failed Apprentice Virtue. Forge Companions are a different situation.

While this is true, it is never explicitly stated that someone without the Gift can help with Magic Theory, except for the Failed Apprentice Virtue. Further, in the Help in the Laboratory section on page 103, the text specifically says "Anyone who has The Gift and a score of at least one in Magic Theory..." And is a pretty big deal in that sentence, meaning you must meet both conditions of being Gifted and having a score in Magic Theory. If the Failed Apprentice virtue didn't explicitly state that they can help in the lab, then they could not, by virtue of that single sentence.

It says that anyone with both can, yes I am aware of that. What it does not say is that those without cannot. It could be that, similar to the rules for midwifery, a certain degree of hands on experience is necessary without some non-theoretical training in the processes, but that could include those who are gifed, those who were gifted (failed apprentices), those bound to teh gifted (familiars) and perhaps non-gifted with certain connections that make sense (craft mages assisting verditius, shapeshifters helping with MuCo(An) research, Crafter's healers helping with healing magic...) or indeed if read technically, it does not forbid anyone from acting as an assistant, it imply grants a lab bonus to that particular group... perhaps the ungifted add 1/2 magic theory and not intelligence, similar to craft assistants, or perhaps only if the magus has the appropriate virtue to use 'ordinary' assistants... there are a lot of places this sentence allows, the only thing it actually specifies is that those who have both can add to lab totals.

Official Ruling of the SG
Lab Assistants that contribute to your Lab Total are, for the most part, limited to the Gifted, Familiars, and those with the Failed Apprentice Virtue.
So mote it be...
(Big Red Hammer[sup]TM[/sup])

Good grief, I go away for a bank holiday weekend leaving an innocent question, and come back to nearly a full scale riot! :laughing:

Ah, bother, I'd forgotten about the constant item warping. It's a brooch because I'm good at jewellery; and it seemed more fitting for its intended purpose, which is as a "dowry" of sorts, to be given to Isolde's father as I start play to soften the blow of marriage to a Gifted individual. Warping would not be a good idea. :open_mouth:

The trouble with Sun is what happens if you want to get wet (to, say, have a bath) if you've put the brooch on since the last sunrise/set. I guess what I really want is an effect that acts exactly as long as the item is being worn. Does such a duration exist?

Good plan. Will do. (I'd forgotten I'd need Finesse. I don't have any. Oops)


Okie-doke. I'll bear that in mind.

It seems to me that if you have duration concentration and the item maintains concentration then when you remove the item it would stop providing concentration. If putting t on is how you activate it then hat keeps it pretty simple...

Ok, I've worked out how I want to do the brooch and invisibility pendant (which may become a ring). I'm now working on an item with Purity before the Noble's Court, Aura of Ennobled Presence and possible Disguise of the Transformed Image in it. I may well also make the object my Talisman.

Meantime: I Experimented on the invisibility pendant, rolling a Side Effect - Minor Flaw: "For example, a spell that allows you to communicate with animals causes you to retain some of the animal's speech patterns for a time after the spell ends". Marko, would you care to suggest a Minor Flaw for this invisibility device?

it inflicts a -1 penalty due to inherit clumsiness because you cannot see or sense your hands?

Hmm. That seems more like a problem with the spell than with the device. I had a thought overnight - how about it leaves your left thumb (or another fixed small body part; nose, say) visible? At your call, perhaps you can eliminate this by wearing something over it (so, no problem if you have gloves on).

Or it makes your footsteps squeak slightly - a difficulty 9 (off the top of my head) to hear?

Good Lord I'm nearly there. 10 seasons left to account for, some of which I will be using to accrue Vis. Suggestions are very welcome on what else I might do.

Some more questions:

  • I have put that I want to gain a Verditius mystery. Project Redcap tells me what they all are, but gives scant information on mechanics (those being in a published book, so fair enough). I'm leaning toward Enchanted Casting Tools, Items of Quality or Reforging (if the last is a Minor virtue). Suggestions on which might be froodiest (or at least fuller descriptions of what they do)? Alternatively, if the Andorra wiki is to be believed, Valdarian Iberian Runes don't include Imaginem or Mentem, which makes them of less use for me to learn later; so perhaps I should just take Verditius Elder Runes. What do they do, mechanically?
  • I could spend a season writing up some Lab Texts (although it would waste my time a bit, as I don't have 120 levels to usefully write up, since I've put so much in my Talisman). The RAW are unclear; if I write up a Lab Text for my experimental and flawed Invisibility ring, does the Lab Text include the flaw?

Do you have houses of hermes: mystery cults? Might be useful to get hold of if you are playing a verditius. It is available as a PDF so should be fairly cheap. Quite a lot of info on Verditius besides the rules.

I will let more savy people to answer your actual query, since I have not seen verditius played in my sagas since 4th edition.

This is a ring or something, right? How about you and the things you wear become invisible, but the ring does not. Covering it with a glove does no good, because the invisible glove reveals the ring floating in air still visible.

I like that idea.

These are each Minor Virtues. Reforging lets you repair broken items, or smelt vis from items (removing the enchantment). Items of Quality allows you, for a season and a pawn of vis, enhance natural qualities of items to grant them bonuses (guideline of the F&E bonuses, as applied to activities requiring rolls, capped by Philosophiae). Enchanted Casting tools can be created to give you spell mastery abilities and bonuses with a specific spell.

Using the Lab Text with the flaw means that the flaw is duplicated in any items reproduced using that text, unless they also experiment and achieve a different result (reference Inventing Spells y Experimentation).

Oh, that's prefect. I'll be having that :slight_smile:

In a tight race between Enchanted Casting Tools and Reforging, I think Reforging just edges it. And I must remember I have 5xp left due to my Cult score when learning that.

My bad. Thanks for the correction!
Must be the habit of doing raw-like characters :unamused: (with 30xp/year, period)

Err... Nope. If only because MT is an hermetic ability, whereas wondrous items isn't.
But she can help a verditius as a Forge Companion, and will be prized for this.


  • Concentration + item maintains concentration (although it can keep it if you don't wear it)
  • Diameter + Trigger (worn item) + unlimited uses: When you don't wear it, the magic quickly fails
  • A non-standard duration. I believe there's a "worn" duration somewhere, you just need to add +1 mag to it.

...and we're done. Well, barring Mustering Out. I may have Antoine buy a book, and I need to define the arts of my Vis. Also, if someone can fill me in on the mechanics of Reforging, that would be top.

Can I join the game proper? :smiley:

Start off by figuring out why you decide to come here, and play it from there.