Antoine of Verditius (Development)

You got everything right except for the virtue/mystery part.
You may take up to three points of new Virtues, which requires an investment of Time & XP
Cost = One Season, plus one season and 10xp per Virtue Point, minus one season per point of Flaw.
You may subtract five times your score in an appropriate Cult Lore from the XP cost. Since Tine = XP at a straight value of 10xp per Season, you can reformulate the cost as to get the maximum value from the cult lore reduction.
Cost = 10xp plus 20xp per Virtue point, minus 10xp per point of Flaw, minus 5xp per point in Cult Lore
Or formulated as straight Time...
Cost = 1 season plus 2 seasons per Virtue point minus 1 season per Flaw point
You may benefit from one transformation/whatever per cycle automatically. You may also indulge in additional Initiations depending on your score in Cult Lore; one additional at a score of 1, again at 3 and every point thereafter.

For the Craft ability, just call it Goldsmih. That is what established players have. It covers a variety of precious metals. Specializations can include a type of mental (gold, silver, copper, etc), or a type of products (rings, chains, plates, etc). You can make a ring or a necklace (chain) with Craft-Goldsmith. Craft-Jeweler is required for setting stones. It can be used to make jewelry (such as rings, even without a stone), but cannot make ornamental ware such as plates or goblets. A jeweled goblet, um, well, um, Craft-Goblets? :mrgreen:

Thanks, I had completely overlooked the cost reduction from MCs :blush:

Still, this is also incomplete :laughing:, as flaws can only reduce time, not XP cost, and this could lead him to believe he could take a number of flaw points > virtues...

So... Flaw points cannot be greater than virtue points. Then, you can use marko's formulaes.
This could then maybe be abstracted as...
Cost:
1 season
+
1 season per virtue point minus one season per flaw point (Minimum 0)
+
1 season per virtue point minus one season per 2 ranks in Cult Lore (Minimum 0). If this is > 0, uneven cult lore ranks give you back 05XP

However, printed initiations may supercede these guidelines.

Wow. Complex. What does it actually mean to be inducted further into a mystery? The core book is not forthcoming. So I would start with Cult Lore (Verditius) at 1; if I raise it to 3 I can get... what?

I will walk you through it, but tomorrow though. Gotta head off to work and I have little time.

You are eligible for transformative grown once per cycle. This could be from life experience or adventure or whatever. You can also gain from twilight based upon how much warping you are willing to take on, and balance positive and negative effects.
Mystery Cult Lore is the loophole.
Your score indicates how many pre-game initiations you are eligible for, all in one cycle or spread out. At a score of 1 you get one, at three you get a second, a third at a score of 4, and etcetera.
Use this simplified Formula.
The process takes one season, and has an xp cost of the Virtue(s) cost times 20, minus ten times the Flaw points included and minus five times your score in Cult Lore. You may only include three points of Flaws, and the minimum cost is 0xp. The one season is the minimum time. The xp cost accounts for the rest of the time.

Asilano, some thoughts for that last virtue we spoke about (instead of Learn Craft from Mistakes):

  • Imbued with the spirit of Imaginem: this allows you to expend fatigue levels as pawns of Imaginem. Saves you vis when enchanting.
  • A Side Effect. These are almost never used but can be great.
  • A Lesser or Personnal power. Think about creatures powers. You have one (think level < 25), that may or not require fatigue (depending on leftover points), and, more importantly, can be used whatever the aura or inside any aegis, just like a creature's power.
  • Great Intelligence, always good for a magus, especially a verditius.
  • Social Contacts, to give you a more "jerbiton" feel

Well, Verditius have specific mysteries that enhance and complement they abilities. Being a long time, so I may forgot or make errors, but as far as I can tall, these are...
Enchant Casting Tools: This allows you to put mastery-like abilities into your casting tools.
Items of Quality: This creates item that greatly enhance the activity they're associated with, such as harming people.
Verditius Elder Runes: This creates an item with... like a focus in a technique and/or form. Very powerful, all verditius take it :unamused: :laughing:
Automata: This creates automatas, this is great but is wonky and bugged iirc
Thingie Curse: This creates cursed items. Wicked.
Bind Magical Creatures: This may drain with from a magical creature, or to take its power for you
Item Attunement: This creates greater enchanted items that can hold as many enchantments as a talisman, but that makes his possessor desire, like the one ring.

All verditius mysteries create and increase your Hubris, which adds to enchanting rolls but make you... Well, hubristic :wink:

Skip Elder Runes if you want to learn the Iberian Script Mystery of the Valdarians. They also teach Items of Quality, Major Magic Focus in Armaments, and I forget what else.

andorra.wikidot.com/valdarius-of-flambeau#toc5

Thanks, good ideas. Imbued with... is especially cool, although I'm not sure it's the route I want. Lesser power is an option if I can think of a good one. I already have 1 Great Int. Social Contacts had occurred to me, but I'd forgotten it. I could easily go for that, in "Goldsmiths".

Woah, fuuunky. I'm definitely up for some of this, or the Valdarian virtues :smiley:. In what way are Cursed items cursed? Is that a virtue variable?

Sorry I haven't progressed this all that much; I have a young family, so weekends have less free time that workdays, when I can at least post in my lunch hour!

I like powers, too, the trick is picking up the right one :-/

Bind Curses grant a minor or major flaw to those who take the item IIRC. I think these are "cursed items", period, so good for trapping those who would plunder your secrets.
This is a mystery virtue.

And no problem, you're totally right to take care of your family first :smiley: Time lost doesn't grow back. This is very sweet, and I wish you all joy and hapiness.

Some progress - wow, 150xp isn't much on abilities. I might have to rob my Arts a bit. It'd be nice to be able to write a book (Latin 5); but it would also be nice to be able to get better Shape and Material bonuses (Magic Theory).

For that last virtue, I'm leaning to Side Effect or a Power; but being a noob I don't know what sort of thing would work. Is there a repository of sample Side Effects or Lesser/Personal Powers I could get inspiration from? My only initial thought for a SE was something like "Can spot and identify nature of Vis sources by sight after casting".

Edit: Ooh, would a power like "Can change a gemstone to any other of the same 'rarity' - that is, any semi-precious gemstone into any other semi-precious, but not into a precious gem" work? And actually, would it be fun? It'd make jewelling easier, but that's not always a good thing, I suppose...

Are you aware of the house rulesregarding chargen? Just in case. Still sleepy.

IIRC, there's no list of side effects, but we can try to find one. What you describe sounds a little too powerful for me, because it'd imply that casting any lvl 05 could double as a suitable InVi spell of, say, lvl 25 (base 4, +1 diam, + 4 vision). I'd say drop that to "identify nature of vis by touch for diameter" (lvl 10), which means you must know or suspect something contains vis.
Based on the only exemple we have, I might try to suggest creating your side effect as a temporary minor virtue, with a possible drawback. Like, casting a spell gives you 1 more confidence score (not point) for a Diameter, but sometimes makes you feel a little too confident. Hard to judge, anyway :-/

Lesser/Personnal Powers: look at creatures for exemples. There are some on the wiki (familiars, ghosts, beasties) that may inspire you. Look out for spells, too. Any spell of level under 25 can be built as a Power.

A personnal power giving you Vis sight is perfectly possible, although it'd cost fatigue.
A lesser Power changing a Gem into any other would be possible... But it wouldn't last (Muto) :frowning: You could take one to make gems more malleable, but, since you're a verditius, this is useless (you've got a build-in ability for this). You may have a Personnal power to sniff out gems (serf's parma).
Taking a power that correspond to a Te/Fo combo you're weak in, or maybe defficient, might be a good choice. Dunno.

I want to sleep.

Ah, I thought I was, but I'd forgotten the Language discounts. Do I get anything trying to buy , given French 5?

Thanks for all that. Your ideas are good - I could get behind a Vis-spotting personal power; but I like the idea of a Virtue-emulating Side Effect, so I'll scour my core book for ideas.

Heh. I know that feeling.

Right, Side Effects. I've found a minor virtue that feels nice (flavourful, potentially useful); which is Clear Thinker. So I'd like to propose for approval:

Side Effect: For a Diameter after casting a spell, gain +3 to resist lies, confusion, befuddlement and subterfuge. (Does this cover illusions?)

If possible, it'd be nice if it could have a small secondary benefit; perhaps "Those within Voice range gain +1 similarly"; or "If already under magical mental influence, immediately roll to break free". I'd be willing to take a hit to +2 bonus, or a possible disadvantage to balance - I just haven't thought of one yet. I reckon I could tie that into Antoine's magical sigil, which could be "creates a slight scent of sulphur" - which would thematically act as "smelling salts"!

I've also allotted some Arts points. I'm pretty close to reaching Gauntlet now (just a few points to allot, and spells to choose), so I'll update the abilities section to allow for specialties shortly.

Wow. It looks... Fine, actually :open_mouth:
This wouldn't cover resistance to illusions, which doesn't exist, but would help with noticing "off" details with an illusion, or resisting anamorphs.

My first reaction was to say "no", based on the 2 examples given for the virtue.
But! :laughing:
They are, IMO, not very good examples, in that they do no scale with the spell's magnitude, and are, actually, weaker that Great Presence or Puissant Concentration, which are always on.
This is difficult to adjudicate, I think :-/

So, maybe something like: For a Diameter after casting a spell, gain + (Magnitude) to resist lies, confusion, befuddlement and subterfuge, as per the Clear Thinker virtue. Those around you (say, magnitude paces) gain half this bonus, which may include your enemies.

Hey, why not take a sigil which is a good smell? With a side effect that make people smelling them more susceptible to suggestion (- magnitude to rolls to resist blablabla for a Diameter), you included (- magnitude/2)? I dunno.
Just bouncing ideas around.

Oh, I like :smiley:. And applying it to allies gives it an uncommon drawback - usually any enemies won't realise they can take advantage of it.

So I will be going for: "Side Effect - After casting a spell of the nth magnitude, the scent of Antoine's sigil causes those within n paces to become more susceptible to suggestion. They suffer a -n penalty to rolls to resist lies, suggestions, confusion, befuddlement and subterfuge, whether magical or mundane. However, this also applies to Antoine's allies, and - to a lesser extent (n/2 penalty) to Antoine himself."

And for the pleasant scent... mm, I think I'll take Cinnamon.

Out of curiosity, how would this be handled in terms of the Code when other magi are around? Would it be considered casting magic on fellow magi? Would the Side Effect simply "bounce off" of Parma (like a penetration 0 spell), or would it use the penetration of the spell?

I've got myself confused with this. Does the statement "Craft-Jeweller is required for setting stones" imply that "Craft - Goldsmith" just flat out can't? Or is it assumed that "You can make a ring or a necklace (chain) with Craft-Goldsmith" implies gem-setting in rings etc (meaning Jeweller is required for setting stones in things Craft - Goldsmith doesn't make)?)

Basically, if I want to make a silver ring set with an opal, can Goldsmith do it?

Uh, pass. No idea. Someone (anyone!) with more setting knowledge than me?

IMO Craft: jeweler allows you to close the holding points in a chain or medalion so that it holds the jewel you have worked on, but it does NOT allow you to prepare the chain/medalion/ring by yourself. You need Craft: "appropriate metal" for that.

In the same approach, you can set stones just fine with craft: goldsmith. What you will need is someone to work the stones/jewels for you before you incorporate them into the final product.

A jeweled goblet is craft: metal-type 100%. The stones are just pre-designed to fit and then used as mere attachments. You require the metal craft to set them.

A verditius with a fair finesse can get worked stones/jewels just fine easily. As long as they are used as a component, I see no problem here.

Xavi