Application of Elemental magic virtue

Hi, I'm looking at this virtue to try and make something useful of It without going the houserule way, can you give me your opinion on those application of the virtue ?

Fist one question about the reading of the virtue

when you add a requisite that is not needed for the spell to work but improves the effect of the spell you usually increase the level of the spell by 1 magnitude, is it still needed with this virtue ?

Eg : If I had an ignem requisite to mighty torrent of water to make the water boiling hot adding +3 damage with multiplier depending on surface of body covered with water (( as suggested p 181) most of the time x3 imho as half the body covered) do I add 1 magnitude or not ?

Second : interaction with magical focus

Usually magical focus are less efficient with spells with requisite, as this virtues states that you can ignore the requisite, does it mean the arts are doubled as normal ?

Eg : a magus with minor magical focus with volcanoes uses the spell "Awaken Sleeping Giant!" ReTe(Ig) 45 (hermetic project p 13)
He has Re 16 Te 15 and Ig 5 and Stamina 0 what's his casting total ? :
-46 ?
-26 ?

Finally: suggestions
I'm trying to use this with a magus specializing mostly in Aquam and to a lesser extend in Terram and Auram do you have any idea of interesting application of requisites for such a mage ?
Have you ever used this virtue in one of your character ?

  1. I can't see why you wouldn't. You're still making the spell more complex.

  2. You're ignoring the requisite; I'd assume that means ignoring it pretty much whole cloth. So I'd say 46.

  3. No, I've never used it on a magus I've made because I've never had a strong enough concept that involves mixing the elements. Aquam + Terram is going to give you things like poisonous mud or similar. Aquam + Auram for raining non-water liquids.

I agree with all this.

For ideas, I would think of things like lava for natural things - something that combines Forms. Kid Gloves gives some good ideas that apply to Aquam.

Also, the requisites show up a lot for Muto. So, for example, transforming water into stone could work. This can be more handy than might be thought, though not as handy as with Auram or Terram due to there ubiquitous nature on the surface of the earth (unless you live at sea). You could make a D: Sun CrAq spell, a ReAq spell to shape the water, and a MuAq(Te) spell to solidify it. Now you essentially have a CrTe spell for D: Sun if you want. (Come to think of it, with T: Part, MuAu(Te) let's you make solid objects nearly wherever you are, essentially replacing CrTe. That could be pretty handy for such a build.)

Actually, the Muto approach gives you a lot of options.

For example, if you MuTe(Aq) some steel into water, pour it into a mould then let the spell expire, you can mould steel into shapes that no medieval smith could hope to achieve.

MuAq(Te) lets you put water on a cart.

MuAq(Ig) does interesting things to rivers, and the boats on them.

Yes, I had just realized I left out some of the Muto options. Really, MuEl*(El), where El* is any element and El is your chosen one, let's you manipulate physical things in so many ways. That includes transmuting earth into fire for Aquam, for example, as a two-step process: MuTe(Aq) + MuAq(Ig). Or, I suppose you could do that with a single spell with an extra magnitude over the higher of the two as MuTe(Aq,Ig). As I said, the requisites show up a lot with Muto.

Interesting point - I have a player with Elementalist and we've really had a hard time making use of this virtue. Focusing just on Muto is actually... Very cool.

To really make it work well, knowing your focusing on a single MuEl(El*) or MuEl*(El) and can be a little restrictive, take a Minor Magical Focus (can't take a Major) in some sort of transmuted element. For example, anything that identifies as water but also not water would qualify: water into wine, stone into water, etc. As this does not include MuAq on liquids other than water, having the other MuEl(Aq) for water does not extend it beyond the scope of Minor Magical Focus (and I can think of one or two other non-Muto guidelines like refining water into a water elemental (uses Creo) or making water into ice (same but ReAq instead of Muto) that would fit). This way your totals don't get reduced by requisites and neither does the Minor Magical Focus's bonus. It's the best pairing to Elementalist I've come up with, and as Elementalist is so weak this might actually make a player taking it feel like it had enough value to take instead of feeling foolish for using three points on it (because they probably would have gotten far more out of two Affinities and something else).

Edit: Oh, and Affinity/Puissant with Muto of course pairs pretty well, too.

CrAq(Ig) with +1 magnitude can probably make a geyser of boiling oil (for increased damage) that can later be ignited (for additional increased damage)
CrAq(Te) can produce liquid mud that will probably reduce vision and slow pursuer.
CrAq(Au) can make sparkling water which is ... less useful

There seems to be potential with minor focus : transmuting water or into water

Combining MuEl(Aq) and MuAq(Te) as suggested by Callen can be a little expensive in terms of spells levels but opens use of ReAq crafting for every elements so this can be pretty strong.
It seems It can be even stronger for a muto specialist by using MuAq base 4 instead of ReAq for semi-solid sculpting If I follow GotF example of "Sculpt the Living water" p96

MuTe(Aq) is basically pit of gaping earth + trap of entwining vines when the spell finishes and can be used to mould steel as suggested by Kid gloves (but requires increased level for metal)
MuAu(Aq) is a drowning effect,
MuIg(Aq) can be a fire extinguisher as well as a decent counterspell is mastered.

Surprisingly there's no guidelines for turning water into fire I guess this will be base 4 or 5, probably 5 because changing fire into water is base 5.
MuAq(Ig) I would make it deal +5 base damage (like natural woodfire)
MuAq(Te) with Target part has a lot of potential : water transportation, trapping something into water, making a bridge, impairing someone wet from a previous aquam spell...
MuAq(Au) allows breathing underwater, can probably engulf boats and swimmers when spell expires.


I've spent years refraining from posting about using MuAu to create virtually everything. shudder I like the 'munchkinism' (I'm still me!) but the aesthetics of it... shudder

Alas, the air in the bag has been transformed into a cat, which....



I don't think I'd consider it munchkinism. Generally, you'd still have to have whatever Form you want to make, and the spells will be higher magnitude both because of Muto and because of T: Part. So it requires more experience to do MuAu(Fo) than doing the same thing via CrFo. Plus, CrFo has the option of designing D: Momentary rituals. It only works out well in the case where you can ignore requisites (Elemental Magic with MuAu(Aq), MuAu(Ig), and MuAu(Te)) or where you have real problems with Creo (such as Major Deficiency).

The far more munchkin version of this is written directly into a relatively main book: Glamour in HoH:MC.

I put it in quotes because I neither fear it nor denigrate it. I'm a big fan of optimization. The problem that I have is that MuAu(x) mostly removes creo. I have the same problem with Glamour; it's powerful, which I like :slight_smile:/939535932750503, but it ruins the underlying magic system. So I never advocate that either, even though it deserves to be added to the TeFo+Focus package I've been suggesting as a starting point since the system came out. (And now, with your focus chosen for you! Hint: Major Focus with Glamour....)



Oh, and MuX(Au) does a fine job serving as PeX.