Can magi sense vis? Number 2 in a series of Stupid Questions

[Dalak]

@Erik Tyrrell

Let me tell you about how I see vis.

Vis is the ars magica version of the magic ingredient
that the hero quests for in legend and literature. If
the hero has to brave the valley of dire danger in
order to get to the lake of despair and pick the last
flower off of the ivy of woe, the reason he has to do
it is because that flower of woe contains a bunch of
mentem vis which he can now use to create a mentem
magic powerful enough to wake the princess.

The ingredients that the Aesir collected to bind
Fenris wolf, the reingeld of the Neibelungen, and the
dragon’s blood that Achilles bathed in are the sort of
items in folklore that serve the same purpose that vis
does in Ars Magica.

Erik, this is one of the best view of vis I ever heard. I adopt it on the spot. It gives the magic back to Magic.

[Erik_Tyrrell]

@Dalak

Erik, this is one of the best view of vis I ever heard. I adopt it on the spot. It gives the magic back to Magic.

I thought everyone thought this way. I guess our groupthink is inconvieniently inconsistent

[WolfOfCampscapel]

@Erik Tyrrell

@Dalak

Erik, this is one of the best view of vis I ever heard. I adopt it on the spot. It gives the magic back to Magic.

I thought everyone thought this way. I guess our groupthink is inconvieniently inconsistent

It's implied but not all that obvious in the rules, from 3rd to 5th edition. The examples in Covenants help. When starting out in earlier editions, I had to resort to collections downloaded from the web that I can't find anymore offhand.

[Dalak]

@Erik Tyrrell

@Dalak

Erik, this is one of the best view of vis I ever heard. I adopt it on the spot. It gives the magic back to Magic.

I thought everyone thought this way. I guess our groupthink is inconvieniently inconsistent

The problem is, the mechanic can take so fast the lead over the "mythicness" and the magic of Vis.

In our games it's like we randomly happen to find some : "Oh, a magical plant, well, it seem unusual. 3 More herbam vis pawns, put it with the others".
(not very "mythic"... isn't it ?)

I'll try to put some Magic back into it.

[Verticius]

@Erik Tyrrell

@Dalak

Erik, this is one of the best view of vis I ever heard. I adopt it on the spot. It gives the magic back to Magic.

I thought everyone thought this way. I guess our groupthink is inconvieniently inconsistent

Not all of us are of such a literary bent.

I think a lot of us understand it, but your writing brings it home. Thanks.

-K!

[Furion_Transsanus]

Kudos Erik - very eloquent and to the point

I think Andrew should consider it for the FAQ, as it would be a great tool for new Storyguides to the game, as well as veteran ones that might need well put points to make the cap on magic sensible to the players.

[The_Baron]

@Erik Tyrrell

You can cast ritual spells. These include all spells
that have durations of longer than a month, all spells
that have a target of boundary, and any spell of level
50 or greater.

The 50+ bit confuses me. The book says you can cast a formulaic at level 50, but need a ritual for anything higher. But Rain Of Oil is a level 50 ritual, and I can't see why. Was this ever explained or errata'd?

[Erik_Tyrrell]

@The Baron

@Erik Tyrrell

You can cast ritual spells. These include all spells
that have durations of longer than a month, all spells
that have a target of boundary, and any spell of level
50 or greater.

The 50+ bit confuses me. The book says you can cast a formulaic at level 50, but need a ritual for anything higher. But Rain Of Oil is a level 50 ritual, and I can't see why. Was this ever explained or errata'd?

that should have been levels greater than 50, not 50 or higher.

Rain of oil falls under "Certain powerful spells and spells inherited from the cult of mercury are also ritual spells" from page 115. The boundary/year/level 50.01/permanent creation/etc. are criteria or spells that have to be ritual. There can be ritual spells that don't fit any of these criteria.

[Haruspex]

@FluffySquirrel

It doesn't explicitly say they can't no, but it doesn't say they -can- .. which is the more important thing ^^ and as people have said, there are given spells and guidelines for detecting Vis, so it would be odd to have those spells if they could just sense it.

It's a question that's bound to come up, and I think the answer is sufficiently non-obvious that a better-written rulebook would include a clear statement one way or the other.

Note that the fact that the rules do say that an InVi1 spell will reveal the presence of Vis doesn't necessarily imply that an InVi1 spell is required to reveal it.

We (players and story guides) live in a different universe, in which magic does not exist. Some things need to be spelt out to us.

[The_Fixer]

I'm forced to agree, although I think otherwise.

Vis might be detectable to touch, and the guidelines be there for those who which to detect it better or with a longer range.