Characters development discussions

Retired Play by Post Campaigns Ars Magica 5th Edition: House Loyalty
41

MuVi si quite difficult for a beginner. You don't have to follow my advice, Ill just tell you whant I do when I make an absolute specialist with only two arts developed. I find it useful to look at spells using my main form and my main technique.

in your combination of MuVi WIZARD'S COMMUNION and WIZARD'S REACH (FORM) are in my opinion the best MuVi Spells in the Core book.

A modified Useful MuVi spell is also one that increases duration, let's call him WIZARD'S SUSTAIN, as a MuVI specialist it could be a good alternative to maintaining the demanding spell.

So looking a good Muto spells, there's :
For defense DOUBLET OF IMPENETRABLE SILK MuAn 15
For social interaction DISGUISE OF THE NEW VISAGE MuCo 15 or DISGUISE OF THE TRANSFORMED IMAGE MuIm
For utility ROCK OF VISCID CLAY has some use for a covenant like ours but it's not the best spell.

Looking at good Vim spell there's
To cancel your own spells PeVi UNRAVELLING THE FABRIC OF (FORM) we have a PeVi Specialist though
To maintain you concentration spells MAINTAINING THE DEMANDING SPELL
To target things at distance OPENING THE INTANGIBLE TUNNEL

Now you probably need a spell to fight or at least flee RISE OF THE FEATHERY BODY can be both you could easily enhance it in range with WIZARD'S REACH (corporem) to make is a passable combat spell.

Now with wizard's reach and wizard's sustain in different form mastered for fastcat you're everyone's best friend because you can make their combat spell sight instead of voice and their boost spells with concentration duration last for the day.

Just my 2 cents.

42

Bitter's got some good suggestions about how to branch out and be more flexible while still concentrating on Muto and Vim. MuAu, or MuAq if you're underwater, actually has some incredible combat potential, but you'll have to invent some spells for that so it's not a starting point.

43

Thank you a whole lot, your suggestions helped Basilus come clean of overspeccing. I reshuffled his Characteristics a little bit and changed the spells completely into what you've suggested along with Wizard's Boost (Corpus) which will help a bunch.

44

I've been bouncing around ideas that I like most for a Minor Magical Focus. Things kept not being right. But I think I have one to run by everyone (mostly SG):

Minor Magical Focus (Resisting Magic)
(I'm not writing "magic resistance" because that's a specific game term.)

What would this apply to:

  • PeVi gen: Dispel Hermetic Form Resistance aligned to a given Form...
  • PeVi gen: Dispel Magic Resistance from a Might score aligned to one Realm...
  • Variants of Break the Shield (HP p.85), but definitely not things like Wind of Mundane Silence since that's far too general.
  • Spells like Impede the Impertinent Interloper (Edit: forgot the citation TME p.109), which is the closest thing there is to a magic resistance spell. Not general counter-magic, just these spells that stop spells from being cast on the target, which is roughly what magic resistance does.
  • Developing a spell version of Parma Magica (which is probably impossible, or at very least a significant amount of original research I'm not planning on doing right now).

Would this apply to Aegis of the Hearth? Up to you. If you focus on it being like Parma Magica, sure. If you focus on it being different, nope.

So this definitely looks like a subset of PeVi, leaving out the majority of PeVi, while possibly including Aegis of the Hearth. So there is no question it's in the Minor category, but that doesn't mean everyone likes it as I've written it.

45

As far as I can see, none of these guidelines are from the core book. I hate to say this, but that means your specialty would be outside one of the criteria I stated for starting magi. :slightly_frowning_face:

Have you considered "Dampening magic"? There are guidelines that would fit in both Pe and Re Vim, including Aegis.

46

Oh, I just thought that it would mean I couldn't start with spells within the focus rather than could never develop them. And, actually, the guidelines for the two given spells are in the core book. The two guidelines I listed are outside of it, though.

47

That might work well.

48

Here's a draft, not sure about Deficient perdo. I'll have to check xp with Arthur's House rule. I used metacreator.

whatever bonisagus
Characteristics: Int +3, Per +1, Pre +2, Com +2, Str -2, Sta 0, Dex 0, Qik -2
Size: 0
Age: 25 (25), Height: 165 cm, Weight: 60 kg, Gender: Female probabaly
Decrepitude: 0
Warping Score: 0 (0)
Confidence: 1 (3)

Virtues and Flaws: Affinity with Muto, Affinity with Animal, Gentle Gift, The Gift, Harnessed Magic, Hermetic Magus, Minor Magical Focus (Corvidae), Puissant Intrigue*, Quiet Magic (Spellcasting Penalty: None for soft voice, -5 if not speaking), Skilled Parens, Subtle Magic, Carefree, Deficient Technique (Perdo), Favors (Tandaline of Bonisagus), Loose Magic, Prohibition (harming Folk witches), Susceptibility to Faerie Power

Combat:
Dodge: Init: -2, Attack --, Defense +0, Damage --
Fist: Init: -2, Attack +1, Defense -1, Damage -2
Kick: Init: -3, Attack +1, Defense -2, Damage +1
Soak: 0
Fatigue levels: OK, 0, -1, -3, -5, Unconscious
Wound Penalties: -1 (1-5), -3 (6-10), -5 (11-15), Incapacitated (16-20), Dead (21+)

Abilities: Area Lore: County of Toulouse 1 (legends), Artes Liberales 1 (astrology), Athletics 1 (running), Awareness 2 (alertness), Brawl 1 (Dodge), Charm 2 (being witty), Code of Hermes 1 (mundane relations), Concentration 1 (spell concentration), Etiquette 2 (nobility), Finesse 1 (Mind reading), Folk Ken 2 (Detecting lies), Guile 1 (lying to authority), Intrigue 2+2 (alliances), Latin 4 (hermetic usage), Leadership 2 (inspiration), Magic Theory 5 (Animal), Occitan 5 (Provençal), Parma Magica 1 (Mentem), Penetration 1 (Vim), Scribe 1 (copying)

Arts: Cr 0, In 3, Mu 9, Pe 0, Re 9, An 10, Aq 0, Au 0, Co 1, He 0, Ig 0, Im 0, Me 1, Te 5, Vi 5
Equipment:
Encumbrance: 0 (0)

Spells Known:
Opening the Tome of the Animal's Mind (InAn 25) +13
Commanding the Harnessed Beast (ReAn 30) +19
Eyes of the Cat (MuCo(An) 5) +10
Disguise of the New Visage (MuCo 15) +10
Aura of Ennobled Presence (MuIm 10) +9
Touch of Falling Feathers (Touch/diam version of Call to slumber fall asleep every turn if woken up) Focus does NOT apply, just a fancy name (ReMe 10) +10
Huldra's Thieves (MuTe(An) 30) +19
The Evil Eye (Sight version of opening the intangible tunnel) (ReVi 25) +14

My analysis : combat is weak, only 1 real spell that does no damage I know, sleeping can be used, mostly usable vs mundane with a tunnel.
Social interaction is decent with disguise, night vision and aura of ennobled presence, (all cancelled at will and for friends too :kissing_heart:)...
Utility is also decent I think : animal for info gathering, attack, diversions... usable on hostile beast at sight range with tunnel.
Evil eye is very strong with a magus that can cast without gesture and soft voice, harnessed magic is weak but a safety measure, I don't want to give Arthur too many good reasons to use my tunnels left open against me.
Its way easier to trigger than a PeVi if I want my tunnel closed NOW and very usefull with disguise too. Long term It's also nice to have with a muto themed wizard.

I probably won't be allowed all 3 modified spells but w/e that's my wish list for christmas.

Maybe I should find a dog or something and take animal handling, but with scary magus around I don't know...

49

Since Huldra's Thieves is both completely custom and high level, I would say no other variant spell.

My House Rules have no impact on xp, only the requirement to have an Area Lore, which you do.

If Tandaline is your mater, it would be strange to owe her Favors. If she isn't, I'm fine with it and it gives you a link to one of the others (who might be). Mentor would also work, alternatively.

Looks good overall. :smile:

50

Tandaline isn’t my mater, I’m from Provençal tribunal. Alyssa maga Trianomae is my mater. Thinking about it l’ll maybe change loose magic because It’s no logical with harnessed magic flavour wise.

For House rule I meant keeping decimals for affinities.

The Evil Eye is probably the most important spell in the list, allowing me to use all my other spells at distance. Is there room for negociation on this one ? Otherwise I’ll find a replacement for Huldra’s thieves and place that one too in the waiting list. I don't want my character to strip someone naked at touch range, think of my reputation ^^.

51

That clarifies the relationship with Tandaline. All good there.

Understood about The Evil Eye. And I assume you need it at level 25 so that you can use Commanding the Harnessed Beast at a distance. So if I ask you to reduce the level it won't work for that. Ok, I will allow The Evil Eye.

52

Indeed.

Thanks !
I'll drop Touch of the falling feather for the core rulebook version Call to slumber.

53

Does anyone know Aegis of Heart at creation ?

54

If I end up with an appropriate Minor Magical Focus, I will. Working on the Focus....

55

@Arthur For clarity, I'm still wondering about this reply I made above:

Can we later on develop spells using non-core guidelines, noting that there are even core spells that use non-core guidelines? For instance, could we ourselves eventually make The Sling of Vilano?

56

Yes, guidelines from other sourcebooks will be available during play, but on a case by case basis. I have noticed that some of the guidelines in the later sourcebooks sometime represented an uptick in power, or were in directions that I didn't agree with. Something like Sling of Vilano isn't a problem. Others are simply extensions of existing guidelines, which are perfectly acceptable to me.

But others are not so simple. So I reserve the right to deny some guidelines or modify them.

57

That's totally reasonable. One of the upticks that surprised me was creating elementals v. the core creating magical animals. I'd like to ask now about two potential guidelines in the future then.

  • PeVi gen: Dispel Magic Resistance from a Might score aligned to one Realm...
  • Reduce a target’s Might Pool...

The reason I'm looking at them is that they're both lesser versions of the DEO guideline. For demons, I would stick with DEO. But for non-demons, it seems like in a setting where vis is rarer, there would be more interest in slaying magical beasts without reducing their Might. As they're lesser versions of a core guideline, I don't think they are part of that uptick in power.

58

These are good examples of guidelines that I find questionables. They presuppose an in-depth understanding of how Magic Resistance and Might Pool work, across a whole Realm.

They seem to have been create precisely to game the system and preserve the vis while stripping away the power of creatures, when those are linked at a fundamental level.

They are also far too broad when compared to previous PeVi guidelines. Guidelines for dispelling effects have to be tailored to a single Art from a specific tradition, and require pre existing of said tradition. The two guidelines above apply to every single creatures of a Realm, be they dragons, ghosts, werecreatures, nature spirits, etc.

The guideline for DEO is just as broad, of course, but it represents a brute-force approach. Such an approach does not require in-depth knowledge or tailoring the effect.

Now, if you eventually have to face a dragon and want to develop something specific, then we can talk about it. :slight_smile:

59

Fair enough. It was important for me to ask while considering possible Magical Foci. Thanks.

60

While asking about spells stuff, I should also ask about potential future Mastery choices.

First, does Adaptive Casting exist as such? In some other way? A long time ago I presented some major issues surrounding Adaptive Casting: General Spells Guide (post 2).

Second, in the future might it be possible to pick up any of Ceremonial Casting, Precise Casting, Rebuttal, or Unraveling.