Custom spells

Retired Play by Post Campaigns Ars Magica 5th Edition: Praesidium Orae
181

I would need some help/advice for a spell idea Bravery has...

InCo?? Knock knock, who's there
R: Touch D: Momentary T: Individual Req: Mentem, Vim
This is roughly based on "Whispers through the black gate". However, instead of talking to a ghost that is still somehow connected to the realm of living, you gather information about a ghost whose corpse you are touching. What realm does it belong to? What is its might score? What powers does it possess? This can be very practical as preparation for talking, summoning or otherwise interacting with the ghost.

I started with base 5 (just like Whispers through the black gate) and and effect that merely tells the caster that there is a ghost that would respond to Whispers through the black gate. However that is not too helpful, when you want to prepare getting involved with that ghost.
I suppose any more information will involve 1. Vim as a requisite 2. Penetrating magic resistance
Would the additional Vim requisite add to the magnitude? Are realm, might score, powers discoverable with Vim? Detecting the might score of a ghost with might 10 requires a Vim base of 10, how does relate to the spells InCo base of 5? Just add magnitudes for complexity?

Any suggestions are welcome. The idea behind a couple of effects that Bravery will come up with is getting ghosts bound back to the former hosts, potentially with their consent and bargain some kind of service relation in return.

182

It seems to me what you want is either InVi or InMe with the arcane connection range to gain information about the spirit linked to the body.

183

Mmh, I thought taking the InCo spell as blueprint could work. Would only recognizing that a ghost "is there" work with InCo? That's at least even closer to talking to the ghost.

184

Corpus is the art dealing with the body. Mentem is the art dealing with the actual ghost. Whispers through the black gate is... admittedly.. a bit of an anomaly I think working with both.

185

I know the difference between Corpus and Mentem. I was just trying to explicitly build that spell on the Whispers example.

186

I prefer to keep the stand has written and assign a +1 to GQ and +1 to Items specialization.

Arduino could copy his pater's project and enchant an iron minion later. 8)

187

In whispers through the black gate you are technically speaking with the corpse, not the spirit, and you can, in fact according to the spell guidelines speak with someone who is unavailable as a spirit- for example someone in purgatory who has not been buried in a churchyard. Also notice that being buried in a churchyard prevents the spell from working even if the spirit has gone to hell or is hanging around somewhere as a magical spirit- the spell is about interrogating a corpse.

188

Ah, ok. I read

differently and thought to be clever basing other effects on the same principle, but true

supports your interpretation.

189

Hi all, sorry to interrupt this discussion momentarily. As I have never before attempted to build a Talisman, I am laying out the process and the rules as I think they apply. Please correct me if I have made a mistake or misinterpreted something.

In 1141 Andros prepares his Excellent Cloak for enchantment. The highest capacity component is the Topaz of Virtue, 12. The rest is the cloak itself (leather and wool and some fur, I suppose), Granite of Virtue, Clam Shell of Virtue, Mercury of Virtue, Basalt of Virtue, all sewn cunningly into the hem, Brass and bronze clasps with tiny iron silver chains and tiny lodestones (magnetite) in the back of the clasps. Those are 10 components, the maximum Andros can handle with his 10 MT.

The clasps have carved on them a lamp on one and drums on the other.

The cloak has very elaborately woven hem with repeating patterns, not quite Celtic, but similar, with tiny swords, armors, shields, axes, spears, crowns all represented, interspersed in the intricate work.

(All these shapes are there to later claim attunement Shape bonuses, maybe, since it takes a season of work on the Talisman to also gain 1 extra attunement)

So Fall is 1 Season of lab work, spend 12 Vim, and item is prepared for enchantment,

Winter is 1 Season of work to Attune as Talisman. After this, it is considered his Talisman, with no attunements yet or enchantments, but the Items of Virtue do activate and do affect him without Warping (per RoP: Magic), the Clam Shell giving him the Tough Minor Virtue, the Topaz the Puissant Leadership Virtue, the Basalt the Puissant Ignem virtue, the Granite the Puissant Terram virtue, and the Mercury the Puissant Muto Virtue (per RoP:M page 126 under Objects of Virtue).
The Talisman can now be further enchanted, with effects up to 12 vis total. Andros can further prepare it for enchantment with any amount of vis, limited by his MTx2 for seasonal work, and his highest TeFo, -12 pawns already “inside”, without regards to the shape/materials.

Thanks for all the comments in advance!

190

first of all, granite of virtue gives +1 to aging rolls, not puissant Terram - no enriched item provides hermetic virtues- though this is not explicitly stated in the text of ROP:M , nor will anything else. Ideas for what a certain object of virtue may do can be suggested, but should not be assumed.
clam shell is tough, and topaz puissant leadership as per ROP:M
granite is +1 to aging rolls as per prior enrichment stats

Mercury will grant the virtue inspirational, and basalt will grant either free expression or affinity with fertility lore, depending on how it is enriched.

191

While I agree that I should have consulted beforehand rather than assuming, and will certainly abide by your ruling, I did not do so because RoP:Magic explicitly says on p.126:

Granite gives a material bonus of +3 to Terram
Basalt gives a material bonus of +3 to Ig or Perdo
Mercury gives a material bonus to Terram, Aquam, or Muto

Hermetic Magi can get around the Warping and the zero Penetration by Enriching the Objects themselves, and making them their Talismans, as spelled out in the Box insert on RoP:Magic p.125. I had mentioned this before, when it was found out that Edith had Enriched a previous Granite of Virtue, that it was useless to Andros, because to include it in his Talisman he had to specifically Enrich it himself.

The other more traditional virtues granted by Granite/Basalt/Mercury are of little interest to Andros. I had seen elsewhere on these boards that such Enrichment for Puissant Arts is not uncommon, so did not perceive it as controversial.

Aside from this matter, the rest of the process and amounts of vis seem correct?

192

I missed that looking through teh examples, and with the possibility of multiple ways to enrich I will abide by the books, so your original version stands.

193

Thanks! Added to Andros's sheet.

194

In 1142 Andros will start enchanting effects into his Talisman, so I'll lay out the process and numbers to see if they make sense to all and are not objectionable:

•Summer: Unscathed in Vesuvius ReIg 50: ReIg 45 Pen +0 (Base 4 + 7 to withstand up to +40, R:P, Duration +2 Sun) + 3 Environmental Trigger +2 3 Uses/day. Based on Ward Against Heat and Flames in Core, but resistance is much higher. Costs combo of 5 Ig/Rego pawns (will use Rego, no Ignem left!)
The odd number of uses/day is there to reactivate the power if it is dispelled, and also to include Andros in the effects's protection if he dons the cloak after it has triggered at dawn and at dusk and then removes it.
As I understand it, the cloak becomes immune to fires of less than +40 intensity on a constant basis, and has a +40 to soak greater fires (good luck with those! :unamused: ). Because Andros has such a close bond with the Talisman, he is included in the Personal range of the power. However, the item triggers its protection automatically twice/day, whether he has it on or not, so he wouldn't be protected if he did not have it on at those specific times, the one extra trigger allows him to do so. Is this right? In any case, anyone can take advantage of the power while they wear the cloak, as Ward keeps heat and fire at bay at 1 pace distance from the Cloak.
Lab Total is ReIg 38 + MT 10 + 3 Int + 7 Aura + 4 similar spell known+ 5 Lab (1 Rego/4 GQ) + 5 Talisman bonus + 4 Excellent item bonus + 12 Simian Rex aid + 11/12 Neleos aid + 1 routine (if Neleos has +11 rather than +12) = 100, done in 1 Season. Attunement of Mercury +5 to Muto

•Fall: Cloak of Adamant! MuAn(He)(Te) 40 (Base 5 + 3 Metal + 2 Sun + 1 Extra magnitude for extreme toughness, R:Personal) + 3 Environmental Trigger + 2 3 Uses/day (to round out to 40, really)
The cloak's softer elements (most of it!) are tougher than the strongest steel conceivable, while still keeping its suppleness, weight, and cloaky-behavior. It simply cannot be torn or pierced or cut or pulled apart. This probably provides an armor bonus to whoever wears it, but Andros already wears armor, so won't enter into those details. Costs combo of 4 An/Muto/He pawns (will use Herbam)
Lab Total is MuAn(Te) 29 + MT 10 + 3 Int + 7 Aura + 4 Lab (4 GQ) + 5 Talisman bonus + 4 Excellent item bonus + 12 Simian Rex aid + 11/12 Neleos aid = 83/84, done in 1 Season. Attunement of Basalt +3 to Perdo

Need another season of Opening to put in more Vim pawns, as 9 of the 12 spaces have been used so far. Need to find more Vim! Attunement of Granite +3 to Terram

• at some other point: All as One MuTe(An)(He) 40 R:Personal, D:Sun, T:Ind Base 4 + 4 affect up to gemstones + 1 Utterly unnatural effect + 2 Sun + 3 Environmental Trigger + 1 2 Uses/day. All the non-He/An components of the Talisman become unnaturally attached to the Cloak itself, an intrinsic part of it, as if it was all one piece, and cannot be removed or torn out in any way from the cloak, or damaged individually unless the item is itself damaged, while still keeping their essential natures and providing whatever bonuses they usually provide. This effect is meant to take advantage of Cloak of Adamant!, as well as further effects that alter the cloak's size or shape or movement. As the Cloak was opened as a compound item by Opening the highest component only (topaz), Andros wants to make sure none of his vital little precious components is ever torn out or separated permanently from the item.
Lab Total is MuTe(An)(He) 29 + MT 10 + 3 Int + 7 Aura + 4 Lab (4 GQ) + 5 Talisman bonus + 4 Excellent item bonus + 12 Simian Rex aid + 11/12 Neleos aid = 83/84, done in 1 Season.
Costs combo of 4 An/Muto/He pawns (will probably use Herbam)
Attunement of Basalt +3 to Ignem

I'd be interested in gauging what the other players and SG think, if the effects are plausible, if their levels are correct (neither low nor high), if they seem superfluous or unnecessary.

195

Nice talisman Ignes.Festivus!

Do you really need the "All as One" effect though? I mean, in my opinion with "Cloak of Adamant!" the talisman's components become already inseparable from each other.

The effect affects all the item, the topaz should not be considered "more enchanted" compared to the rest of the talisman so there should be no need for further measures regarding the other components.

196

Nice talisman Ignes.Festivus!

Do you really need the "All as One" effect, though? I mean, in my opinion with "Cloak of Adamant!" the talisman's components become already inseparable from each other.

Moreover the effect affects all the item, the topaz should not be considered "more enchanted" compared to the rest of the talisman and there should be no need for further measures regarding the other components.

197

sorry I didn't respond to this earlier-
First of all, what is the cloak made from? I believe it was made by the weavers which would mean wool, which I an animal product and there is no need for a he component (though that does mean you cannot use He Vis)
Secondly the base would appear to be 4 - Change something made of animal products in a minor unnatural way. Referencing doublet of impenetrable silk this would give a soak of +3, though it is clearly the intent of this spell to make the cloak itself relatively indestructible (nothing is absolutely indestructible) doublet of impenetrable silk already describes the effect as not being able to be cut or pierced by weapons. This magnifies to include being torn, pierced (by anything) or pulled apart, which I think is worth an extra magnitude, this wouldn't change the soak but it would apply to non-weapon damage as well. If you want to use additional magnitudes to increase the soak you could of course do so.

198

Hi silveroak, thanks for looking it over! The thinking behind it is not to necessarily function as armor (although the +3 of Doublet of Impenetrable Silk seems appropriate), but to be as hard as steel + extra magnitudes, while still behaving as a cloak in all other respects. Thus I took Base 5 MuAn Change something made of animal products in a major unnatural way, added +3 and Te to change into not-quite-metal-but-as-tough, and then a further magnitude just to make it even tougher. I take your point about "nothing is absolutely indestructible"! You are right about He not being needed, I am thinking from a more modern and mistaken perspective, so will remove that and use some other appropriate vis.
One of the things Andros is looking to enchant into the Talisman is an effect that controls the cloak as if it were a living thing, up to an including grasping others or handling delicate items, and another to make it grow enormously, so the proof against all but the mightiest creatures or the most specific spells is paramount in the magus's mind.

Thanks leo! It needs to be extravagantly durable, Andros has sunk at least 9 declared Seasons into it and many more to come. For your answer, I refer you to what I answered silveroak above, plus: Andros worries that any component could be forcibly separated from the Cloak, and thus permanently lost. This is a MuTe effect to sort of subvert the nature of these Objects of Virtue (and also the hasps and the chains that unite them, all non Animal components) so that they all gain the immense toughness Cloak of Adamant grants, as well as being lighter, more pliable, basically uncrushable; to affect all, including the topaz, took the guideline to affect gemstones. I could perhaps have done this just with Cloak of Adamant (but at a higher level, unable to do in a season or two , perhaps), but it seems to me an effect that is somewhat separate, but complementary. It may be overkill, but seems something Andros would try.

199

Hi silveroak, thanks for looking it over! The thinking behind it is not to necessarily function as armor (although the +3 of Doublet of Impenetrable Silk seems appropriate), but to be as hard as steel + extra magnitudes, while still behaving as a cloak in all other respects. Thus I took Base 5 MuAn Change something made of animal products in a major unnatural way, added +3 and Te to change into not-quite-metal-but-as-tough, and then a further magnitude just to make it even tougher. I take your point about "nothing is absolutely indestructible"! You are right about He not being needed, I am thinking from a more modern and mistaken perspective, so will remove that and use some other appropriate vis.
One of the things Andros is looking to enchant into the Talisman is an effect that controls the cloak as if it were a living thing, up to an including grasping others or handling delicate items, and another to make it grow enormously, so the proof against all but the mightiest creatures or the most specific spells is paramount in the magus's mind.

Thanks leo! It needs to be extravagantly durable, Andros has sunk at least 9 declared Seasons into it and many more to come. For your answer, I refer you to what I answered silveroak above, plus: Andros worries that any component could be forcibly separated from the Cloak, and thus permanently lost. This is a MuTe effect to sort of subvert the nature of these Objects of Virtue (and also the hasps and the chains that unite them, all non Animal components) so that they all gain the immense toughness Cloak of Adamant grants, as well as being lighter, more pliable, basically uncrushable; to affect all, including the topaz, took the guideline to affect gemstones. I could perhaps have done this just with Cloak of Adamant (but at a higher level, unable to do in a season or two , perhaps), but it seems to me an effect that is somewhat separate, but complementary. It may be overkill, but seems something Andros would do.

200

something which is hard is not flexible, and doublet of impenetrable silk already makes the material impenetrable- moving from impenetrable to also being untearable and impervious to being pulled apart would be one magnitude- what is the point of the Terram/metal aspect of this?