Really? I think misread what I wrote. I wrote that "if we go with matching bases in both directions..." Note the conditional statement. You are saying that if we do change bases to match like this, then we don't change bases? If so, you're contradicting yourself, which is why I think you misread what I wrote.
Meanwhile, are my power level comparisons really misplaced? Take one ghost and give it the ability to hurt corporeal targets. How many of those corporeal targets could hurt it back? Until it runs into proper opposition, it could just run around Mythic Europe beating up everything. Given enough penetration, you could even send it after dragons and the like. Anything that can't deal with spirits is in big trouble. But if you give a person a weapon that can also harm a spirit, comparatively how far can they go with it, especially since so many of the things they might attack with it can already affect them somehow?
It is true, that if we just make the ruling for this one particular spell and no other, that no others need be affected. That does make me wonder why for this one particular spell, though? As I pointed out, it's not due to a power level issue since the spell one magnitude higher is actually far more dangerous. If not for a power level imbalance and since we have a known base to use, why would we change bases to match for this spell and not do the same for other spells? To be intentionally arbitrary?
If we didn't have already known bases, figuring out a base this way could make sense. But that is not the case here, and as you point out, I'm properly citing bases from the core book.
So can someone help me understand why the reverse of the spell wouldn't have the same base or spell level? Is there a requirement that isn't added when attempting to affect ghosts that is added when ghosts affect the living?
It's just that the base for MuMe is different than the base for MuTe. The MuMe base is 25. The MuTe base is 20 (once metal is included). This isn't uncommon at all. The base for MuCo(An) doesn't match the base for the reverse MuAn(Co). The base for MuIg(Au) doesn't match the base for MuAu(Ig). I would presume in design they decided certain things were easier to change and certain things a little harder.
I mean, the base of my statement was that there is precedence in spells where ghosts can affect the living in the allowed material, so you guys should be able to invent spells to affect ghosts.
If there are explicit baselines to follow which match the effect then they should be used, even if those baselines are at different levels when referenced from different Forms.
This can happen, especially with transformation baselines. The apparent contradiction is a feature and not a bug.
If however there is no specific baseline to reference for the spell effect but there is an opposite or very similar effect, you use that similar effect Base.
I’d have to look back over the posts to be sure but I think the example earlier was a good one.
Eg. Why can MuTe/An turn dirt into an animal at a lower baseline than CrAn can create one? It’s a feature.
That is an interesting one. It might have been done to allow making animal statues into actual animals a little easier. The one I've been tempted to try at some point is turning tattoos into animals.
The more questionable part is really if it should be base 4, +2 metal. That base is quite literally what is happening. Normally the weapons cannot naturally affect ghosts, so I'm trying to get it to do something highly unnatural. "Change dirt so that it is highly unnatural" is base 4. But base 10 has been used in canon for insubstantiality for Terram, and following the HoH:TL spells that go the other way, the same base would be used instead of using the lower base 4.
Off topic - I remember something about not being able to turn images into things. Although I suppose the counter-argument is it’s the pigments which are being made into an animal. I
Easy. In real life, turning wine into piss is easier than turning piss into wine. Turning a plate into shards is easier than turning shards into a plate. Turning a cow into minced meat is easier than turning minced meat into a cow.
I'm waiting on you guys to let me know you're done. I've got one I think that's done (callen). Maybe. I honestly don't know who is done or not at this point.
I have to post a clean-up version for post-apprenticeship advancement. But I've posted at apprenticeship and those years of advancement (a bunch but still before needing a Longevity Ritual, taking advantage of Strong Faerie Blood instead of using Skilled Parens and the like).
Ok, so it's on me then for not paying attention. With a log going on here, as well as work priorities the last 2 weeks, I may have missed stuff. No excuses, but I do apologize.
I'm going to assume you guys are ready then, and I'll get the game started shortly!
I don't think we had anyone fall off the map?
Pralix looks like he was pretty much done with his build and pinged the OOC not long before Ghost posted the start up.
Ignes doesn't have a later build up on his thread but that doesn't mean anything. He has been on recently just not in this game area.
Callen is always on.
Me and IBT have already posted.
Ghost, how are you handling your DMPC? Is she just another member of the gang or is she aloof from the general game play? Also you broke your Character creation rules for her now that I am looking. She spent 4 seasons in the lab on year 3 while the max is 3 seasons. You should probably finish out Year 4 since the game starts in Winter?
Vonette is far from done; I'm actually stuck trying to figure out what to do with her at this point. I may regress her back to Gauntlet and leave it at that.
I'm waiting on Ignes to post IC. I've PM'ed him, and he indicated he would be posting up shortly. I'll give him until this afternoon before the council meeting continues without him (which will give a good RP opportunity for him to explain his tardiness).