Distance for a circle target...

If I target a circle with an effect based on ReTe4 Transport a target instantly up to five paces. [MoH p.92]...
Five paces from where?
The center of the circle the circumference? In particular, what if the circle has a radius of more than 5 paces?

One obvious answer is of course, pick the ReTe5 guideline with 50 paces... But what if every magnitude counts :slight_smile:

Suggest this is from a consistent point on the object or person. The middle of the circle is moved 5 paces.

I agree with ironboundtome.

It's move 5 paces from… where it was! Be it the centre or the circumference : center will be 5 paces away from its previous position, and circumference too.

If the circle has more or less than 5 paces radius, that's unimportant : larger the circle, bigger the effect, but 5 paces away.
So you could move, to 5 paces distance, a 15 paces radius circle with the same spell (tracing the circle will take longer).

I would add that all dirt is moved in the same direction (by one spell).

The dirt that the circle is made of perhaps, but the spell defined was ReCo not ReTe.

Right, the target is the target. The circle just defines that. A 5 pace teleport on a person in a very large circle could easily teleport them to a spot within the circle. It resolves the same as if you used an individual target.

On the other hand there is another range issue- If I cast target circle with range sight- what happens? If I trace the circle I am working with range touch again, if I don't how is this not just target group? Circle/ring seem like the redheaded stepchildren of the whole target/range/duration setup.

You trace the circle with your eyes I would think. It still happens in the same time as it takes you to walk it. I had always assumed you needed to touch the circle to trace it and that was why the range was always touch.

This is accurate. I think circles are another thing like aegis of the hearth or familiars. It's not really something that fits into the unified theory, basically a universalized mystery virtue.

Use D:Arcane Ring and/or T:Arcane Circle from TMRE for circles > R:Touch.

Circle/ring must be physically traced (not "traced by sight") but after it is traced, you could use a Voice, Sight or even Arcane range to cast the spell.

I was musing abouit this spell. Teleporting dirt in a big circle could have interesting effects. Dirt is teleported, but not plants, animals, people, stones, bricks…
Just imagine that you teleport all this dirt 5 paces up!
You could devastate a lot of things with this low level spell (provided you could trace the circle).

Teleport dirt 5 paces: base 4; touch+1, mom, circle. You could even slap Size+1 on top, if your Rego Terram isn't too shabby.

Instant plow spell basically?

Do you need +size on circles for something like dirt I would think the circle target would just handle it. If it was a ring then all the soil would be turned eventually in any case.

Argh, actually it doesn't work with [T:Circle].
You still need a well-defined individual of at most 10 cubic paces, and that earth is still connected to the earth below it...
You need [Target:Part] for that.
It's going to cost +1 mag, but hey: you don't have to worry about drawing a circle

Window of a Singular Direction in HoH:TL works with T:Circle because it stops on the other side of the wall.

Why should T:Circle not work?

ArM5 p112: "the spells affects everything within a ring drawn" (emphasis mine)
The cylinder of earth in question goes all the way to wherever the bedrock is, so unless you draw a rather small circle, it is most likely larger than 10 cubic paces (or even the 100 cubic paces that you get with Size+1).
You can still try it with an open-ended Spontaneous spell, though.

To affect Part of the ground, you need Target:Part.
Unless the circle defines a manageable amount of matter like Window of a Singular Direction, that is.

This is a commonly contested point.

Is it?
YSMV, then.

Edit: I couldn't find those debates on the forum, could you point some out to me, please?

Do you have a reference for Circle targets being limited to base individual? I would suppose a ward can protect a group within a circle without being T:Group.

Pretty much every time rings and circles get brought up as it happens...

search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&keywords=ring+height&fid%5B%5D=4&start=15
https://forum.atlas-games.com/t/novel-use-of-ring-circle-spell/7452/7
https://forum.atlas-games.com/t/spells-that-are-ring-but-not-circle/5839/9
https://forum.atlas-games.com/t/circle-ring-on-spheres/7073/3

The "infinitely tall" view seems generally in a minority.

Though it might still not work as a cheap plow... I suppose this kind of ReTe will raise the earth as a solid block which would naturally take plants with it. When it then falls back down again a lot of those plants will still be in its place...