Fan Grimoire?

I normally don't give a thumbs up/down until there are comments from two others on the spell, unless it is very simple. Early on I did and then after a couple of comments I realized my initial reaction was wrong so now I just wait a bit to get any info I might have initially missed.

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I'm like Troy. If it's an obviously straight-forward use of a base or a R/D/T/size variation of a canonical spell, I'll go right to thumbs. Otherwise I usually try to comment and give others a chance and then check what they've said.

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I don't want you to rush to give thumbs-up/down. But until jt happens, the spells will not be moved to the final document, is all am saying. In the mean time, I got working on the Aquam finished spells, so two Forms are now ready in the cleaner document, and it makes me happy to see this progress.

BTW, I won't be available till next Monday, but don't stop commenting, debating, and/or give your thunbs up/down.

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Having said that, I looked at the last spell in the section when seeing how long it was and instantly gave it a thumbs down. It is a variation of Hermes Portal, with a different Form and some funky R/T/D. Though really that is simple since any variation of a non-Hermetic is not possible without a breakthrough and we have been saying no to all breakthroughs.

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And here I thought I'd finally caught up to you. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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Had to share this because I found it rather hilarious. An overly broad version of "In Christ's Footsteps" that had a Sun duration. It is a "Move the target slowly in one direction over surfaces that cannot support it" spell that last till sunrise/sunset and is meant for traveling over unstable terrain.

The problem is, it is a single direction movement spell that has no control over it and last for up to half a day. The Target has no control, the Magi can't end it, you are moving at walking speed in that direction unless you are hanging onto something or roped to something.

Thorn bushes in the way? You better be ready to step up them or you are getting dragged across the surface. Oh is that a fire? Guess you are going through it. A river of molten lava? Maybe some bit of your smoldering corpse will get to the other side.

As designed it is really a "get rid of opponent" spell rather than a "travel spell". There is a reason you want travel spells to be Concentration, it lets you make adjustments or stop it.

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Well, this has been done canonically at longer than Sun in a safe way. The problem is the single direction. The canonical version for an animal is: ReAn 25 (Base 10, Sun +2, +1 Constant), though that also allows for probably a little more. Look RoP:M p.60.

The key for that one is it is a Personal Power with Constant. That means as part of its powers, that is just how that horse moves all the time. Not something you can replicate with a Hermetic Spell, though you might with an enchanted item.

EDIT: And I am feeling like Sweeney Todd right now since I am going through all the Necromancy "processing" spells.

Think about the person who wrote those. :wink:

As for the movement, I should have grabbed another spell. For instance, there is a statement that a Sun flight spell could be a problem if you want to walk around. But because you can freely change direction and speed, you don't run into the sorts of problems noted above. That's why I said travel spells can be find without Concentration. You just need control, and you don't need Concentration to be able to make adjustments. Using Concentration does make it easier to stop, but it also makes it easier to accidentally have the spell end.

But the Target never has control unless they are the Caster. Well unless the Caster also uses a spell like 'Passing the Reins of Corpus' (HP, p.97). So generally once they are beyond the sensory range of the Caster at best they are being directed blind.

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That's generally true if it's Concentration, too.

Difference being with Concentration they stop when the Magus quits concentrating. For blind directing the spell needs AC range. With this spell once they are outside of Touch range the Magus has no control and it is not stopping from their last setting.

ArM5, p.111 "A spell that has a continuing effect remains in effect even if the caster moves out of range. A
spell that allows the caster to control the effect only permits that control as long as the caster is within range. However, it does not expire if the caster moves out of range, and he may control it again if he moves back into range."

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There are three spells that incapacitate the Target using a Base 5. I didn't catch it at first pass but they are using two different Base 5's. There is the one in the Core book that "Holds a target's body motionless" and there is the one in A&A, p.57 that "Invokes a major symptom of a disease (e.g. ... paralysis)".

One of the spells is clearly paralysis, one is clearly hold motionless, and the third is a blend of the two. The one that is a blend needs to be fixed since they are two different Bases that have different effects on the Target. A paralyzed (total paralysis) Target cannot move, but is limp and does not feel things happening to them. A held motionless Target also cannot move, but is ridged and can feel things happening to them.

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Agreed with Troy on concentration. That's why we have Tethered.

Yes, you lose control outside of Range, regardless of what Duration you choose. I've already made at least one comment on that as we edit. Concentration only give the ability to stop the effect without using PeVi. But this can also be severely detrimental with flight spells, so many flight spells are build with Durations other than Concentration.

I'm really just addressing this:

  • Concentration Duration has nothing to do with making adjustments. Range does.
  • While Concentration does let you stop it, it also means you might lose it unintentionally. So sometimes you want Concentration and sometimes you want to avoid it with travel spells.

Tethered doesn't require Concentration. You can transfer control of Sun or Concentration with Tether or Passing the Reins of (Form).

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Should have said that from the beginning, though that was never the true issue with that spell. The issue is that a (non-Caster) Target most likely will go beyond the Caster's control at some point and then just keep going with no way to stop them until it expires. Even a Magus who cast it twice (on themselves and another) has to maintain contact with the other to direct them. If that contact is broken (Magus trips, something distracts/scares them, etc) and the other was moving then they will just keep going. Now you are in a chase.

EDIT: And the hilarity is even greater with the image of a fat old Magus trying to chase down their runaway Grog.

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I certainly didn't say Tethered required concentration.

Since Raccoonmask asked me to, I created an actual working version of 'False Immolation'. Thought I would share it here since it is easier to work on the Forums for a single thing. It is build from the Core spell 'Phantasmal Fire', which is then expanded to include Smell, Move at command, Intricacy (its burn effects are very intricate), and inflicting PeCo "Pain".

A few notes. Since it is designed to inflict pain on a specific target, the fire will always be on them and the pain only effects them. While it might be directed to draw back and die mostly down, it will still stay around the target and the pain is only muted to a dull throb. I also tweaked the Contributor line since the spell is really mine based on their idea.


False Immolation
Cr(Pe)Im(Co, Ig) 45
R: Voice, D: Sun, T: Ind

Makes an image of a fire (up to the size of a large campfire) that dances, illuminates, crackles, smells, and (apparently) warms around the target. While it does not actually spread, burn, or protect against cold, it is capable of creating the intricate illusion of gruesomely burning the target including the skin burning and peeling away, blood boiling and hissing, the smell of burnt hair and cooking flesh, and the actual infliction of pain (-1 Penalty on actions, EF 12+ on Concentration actions).

The fire is under the control of the Caster. It can be drawn back, resulting in all the injuries disappearing and the pain dropping to a dull throb (no penalties). It can be pushed far beyond the illusion of burning resulting in the target appearing as a flame enwrapped corpse still screaming (though only with the above penalties).

Bystanders are witness to the horror, able to see the target burning, hear the sizzle of their flesh and boiling blood, smell their hair and clothing burning along with the scent of charred flesh, (apparently) feel the heat of the flames, and be illuminated by it. This is a truly horrific experience to behold! When the effect ends, only the mental scars remain.

(Base 4, +2 Voice, +2 Sun, +2 move under your command, +1 Intricacy, +1 for light from Ignem requisite, +1 for pain from Perdo Requisite)


EDIT for further notes:
Intricacy is required. All the CrIm spells that produce illusions of humans in Core have it. This spell produces an illusion of a (burning) human. Dropping it would reduce the fidelity of the burning bits from "4K High Def" to old broadcast TV. Everything would become "one note".

Duration of Sun is excessive for most situations. For torture (which was the main idea behind this spell) it works fine but if you want to just teach someone not to mess with a powerful Magus then Diameter or Concentration would be better.

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For a spell of this level, it does not do much. Yes, it is flashy and possibly horrifying for the witness, but I wonder if you could not push the envelop.

"The spell can inflict pain as if the target suffered light, medium or heavy wounds with the according penalty. The caster can reverse the pain and the wounds since they are an illusion."

At least, if the target is to torture the person, by having wound-like pain, the malus gives a mechanical way to resist questioning more difficult.
The problem is that inflicting wounds is Base 5/10/15. Maybe inflicting illusionary wounds can be lowered (and at the same time, it could give us another base to vary all those pesky pain hampering spells...).

Really it is designed to be flashy and torture, rather than efficient. You could make a version that drops the +2 Control Movement and +1 Intricacy, optionally drops Smell (so CrIm Base 3), and reduce Duration to Diameter. This would be a Pe(Cr)Co(Im,Ig) level 25 spell that lights the target on "illusionary" fire and makes them feel pain as if they were burning for several minutes. Heck you could just use the Core spell to light people on illusion fire though they won't seem to burn without a custom version.

I really don't want to do anything that goes higher on the pain scale numerically and would be willing to drop all such numbers from the text so that it is up to individual groups and SG.