Frequency of Twilight and sources of Warping

While I have not done it, the concept is quite terrifying, especially against established magi. I can imagine a level 20 CrVi Enigma’s gift giving 2 warping points, with 3 levels of mastery for fast casting, penetration and multiple casting.

A level 20 spell is low enough, especially for an optimised magi, to get through most Parmas. 4 warping tests are crippling. Either the magi chooses to enter twilight and hopes not to get 1 bad roll out of the 4 comprehension rolls, or they are vulnerable to anything for the next 2 minutes.

For what it is worth, I would not play it as 4 checks, but that is because I dislike cheesy combat strategies and this is one. I would say yes, 8 warping points, however, there is 1 check against a 2 warping point attack. Same with Winter’s Icy touch. If a characters wants their magi able to drop 5 fatigues levels and knock out an enemy, throw a 30th level spell, no mastery 4 fast cast of a level 10 spell to knock out a magi. I appreciate call to slumber is level 10, but that person can be woken up easily.

I have faced it twice - once recently, where a magus who had stolen something from his parens laid a mass warping trap, and the SQ used it as an excuse for us all to go into a massive shared twilight experience. The other time, in order to defeat our Twilight Prone Flambeau there was a dragon who could use Enigma’s Gift as a power with huge penetration. We had to run away. Eventually I think we gathered an Arcane Connection with another group of magi used to take it down.

There’s a non-player mage IOS who uses a version of Enigma’s Gift to knock magi off the board, successfully driving more than one into Final.

Inflicting Warping / Twilight seems like something at least a few Tribunals would treat as 'Taking Magical Power of another' (a high crime). From another perspective, a mage in Twilight is not dead -- so a Wizard War might expire (& be declared a loss) for the non-Twilight mage. This might seem a bit odd, but the more powerful mages (ie, the ones with enough political connections to get the rulings they want) are also the ones at greater risk of Twilight.

In the case I mentioned, high crimes are piling up, so it’s not really a concern.

Except they don't act the same way. A Significato works exactly like studying from Vis -- including the chance of botching & a rather miserable (and extremely 'swingy' because it uses Stress dice) return on invested Vis. One of the major themes of this discussion is 'How to make Studying from Vis more tempting to players', and Significatos change nothing worthwhile in that regard.

I expect the mage in question to have quite a high chance of being Marched, then. Other mages can certainly be forgiven as seeing that person as a serious threat.

I was thinking in terms of a Wizards War or March, though obviously the use of warping attacks otherwise would breach the Code. Since it can temporarily take a wizard ‘off the board’ as it were I could see it as a political tactic (Praeco, I don’t know why Bonisagus isn’t present today to cast their vote and proxies. That’s too bad…).

Sure, in a March almost everything is fair game. But like I said, it is possible that some Tribunals have ruled that a mage who forces their opponent in a Wizard War into Twilight automatically loses the WW. It might seem like an odd ruling, but it has the effect of discouraging a type of attack that more senior mages are wary of. And the potential for 'abuse' by simply going into Twilight to win a WW is a self-limiting tactic with a very real price.

Very nice ideas. I can certainly see this getting magi to get out more.

I thought along similar lines recently, but about the XP system in general. The main idea is that you only learn from higher skilled teachers - you're never inventing new stuff, you're always learning from the Great and Glorious Past. The higher the level the more Mythic the source must be.

This is coupled with the idea that you gain 30 XP per year, always. So chargen and in-game advancement are in-line.

It would go sometihng like this.

Character Transformation

Characters are transformed by their experiences and time.

Experience alone is not enough to undergo change. You need time to internalize your experiences and grow.

Time alone is not enough to facilitate all changes. Changes can only be accomplished by undergoing appropriate experiences.

  • A main (magus) character receives 30 experience points each year.
  • A supporting (companion) character receives 15 experience points per year

A background (grog) character usually receives no experience points and does not advance at all. For ease of play, it is assumed that whatever changes he goes through are minor or irrelevant.

However, to invest experience in a skill or Art requires also an appropriate Source. Each source can only increase a skill or art up to its Source Level, and not beyond.

  • Exposure or Primer up to 1st magnitude (Art level 5, Ability levle 3). (semi-skilled)
  • Training or Summa up to 2nd magnitude (Art level 10) (professional, skilled)
  • Personal instruction up to 3rd magnitude (Art level 15) (grand master, journeyman mastery of Art)
  • Raw vis or minor (Might 10+) supernatural intervention up to 4th magitude (Art level 20)
  • Significanto or medium (Might 30+) supernatural intervention up to 5th magnitude (Art level 25) (Mastery of Art)
  • Mighty (Might 50+) supernatural intervention for 6th or higher magnitude (Art level 30+) (legendary level of Art)

Each Source can only increase up to one magnitude (5 Art levels) from when it's first used. Even if its Source Level is higher, you cannot increase more than one magnitude using it.

Exposure

You must be able to closely observe those practicing their skill, and their skill level must be at least 2nd magnitude (professional). This method of learning can increase your skill to 1st magnitude (semi-skilled).

This is often the way of learning at early apprenticeship. Assisting in a laboratory can garner Exposure in appropriate skills or Arts.

Training

Supervised learning, with instruction and supervised practice sessions, possibly as part of a group of up to Leadership students. The trainer must have a skill or Art level above the trainees. This method of learning can increase your skill to 2nd magnitude (skilled).

This method of teaching is often used in most of the apprenticeship. As training takes at least a season, the teacher may engage in other seasonal activities during the year; the master of an apprentice often uses these for labwork.

Book

There are two kinds of books.

A Summa is a book written by a grand master, providing a comprehensive treatment of all the essentials of a topic. It can increase the reader's level to a master (2nd magnitude). It must be written by a writer who is at least a grand-master (3rd), and has positive Communication.

A Primer is a book written to provide more elementary instruction. It often takes the form of a question-and-answer series, dialogues, or educational stories, and is often aimed at adolescents. It can teach only the bare elements (1st magnitude) of the topic. It can be written by anyone who is at least a master (2nd magnitude) and has positive Communication; or by any grand-master (3rd magnitude).

Primers and summas are very useful for apprentices, and for magi not yet highly experienced in an Art. In addition, however, magi make use of two more kinds of books:

A Tractatus is a Laboratory Text.

A Synthemata is a True Name.

Laboratory and Synthemata Tractatus are relatively short treatises, and several are often bound together in a single physical volume. Such compilations are commonly referred to as grimoires.

Personal Instruction

Intense personal instruction to a single student. The teacher must have a skill level 1 above that of the trainee. This method of learning can increase your skill to 3rd magnitude (grand-master).

Raw Vis

Magi can study raw vis to increase their Arts. This requires (Art) pawns of raw vis, and allows increasing the Art up to 4th magnitude.

Studying raw vis requires a laboratory and is inherently dangerous. You must roll a stress die with at least (3 + Art/5) botch dice. Success is guaranteed, except on a botch. A botch often sends magi to Wizard's Twilight.

Significanto

Significanto are uniquely powerful expressions of an Art, raw vis that is exceptionally aligned with its Form. They are usually harvested from Mighty (Might 50+) creatures, and contain 10 pawns or more of raw vis.

A single significanto can allow continuous study until the learner increases his level by 1 magnitude. It can only be used to increase a score up to 5th magnitude (Art level 25). Each (10 XP) of study depletes it of 1 pawn of raw vis. When completely depleted, it can no longer be used.

Supernatural Intervention

A supernatural creature may help a mortal to gain higher skill levels. The creature must actually have the desired skill at that level, or be closely associated with the Art, and be of sufficient Might.

Such intervention usually takes the form of intermittent instruction, or instructive performance of the Skill or Art, over the course of the year. Some magi have been known to imprison supernatural spirits and force them to provide instruction or study them in the laboratory through macabre experiments in order to learn their secrets.

Note that there are spirits and creatures of all Realms with the requisite skill and Might.

Original Research

It is generally assumed that skills are eternal and immutable, and are known in their entirety to the relevant supernatural entities. Wayland Smith can teach smithing to the highest conceivable level; there is no technique, innovation, or method of smithcraft beyond his knowledge. Likewise, the archangel Metatron possesses complete knowledge of theology, and the titaness Gea possesses perfect understanding of the Art of Terram.

Certain forms of mundane knowledge, however — such as Area Lore — are more transient. Such knowledge is often not possessed by supernatural beings (perhaps with the exception of ghosts) - and correspondingly is often limited in level.

Such knowledge may be accumulated through painstaking mundane research. Unlike other Sources, this undertaking requires an entire year of dedicated effort and therefore cannot be combined with other Seasonal activities. The character must have access to suitable mundane resources — ancient texts to study, villagers to interview, sites to visit, or similar materials relevant to the subject of inquiry.

If these conditions are met, Original Research may increase such skills up to 3rd magnitude (grand master).

This method is employed in the creation of new Mystery Cults, where it serves to establish the cult’s Lore.

Hermetic Apprenticeship

A typical Hermetic Apprenticeship spans 15 years of menial labor, study and magical transformation, hence providing 15 x 30 = 450 XP. This is divided to 120 XP in Arts, 120 XP (levels) in spells, and 210 XP in other skills; the latter must include as a minimum Magic Theory 3, Latin 4 (or 3 with Hermetic usage specialization), and Artes Liberales 1. It also confers Parma Magica 1 for free.

I could also see a magus who is being marched inducing twilight on themselves in order to escape…

If I recall correctly, it doesn't really help -- they come out of Twilight at the exact same spot where they entered it. So the folks hunting them just have to find them & set up camp.

If the folks hunting them know where they disappeared, sure. But if you manage to give them the slip ad disappear “somewhere between Paris and Nice” it is quite likely they can search the entire area repeatedly and not know either where or when you will reappear.

I’m not saying it is the perfect escape, but it is definitely worth trying if you are being hunted for a march. Additionally it is a way to introduce new and powerful villains into your saga- 100 years ago they were being marched and vanished, and now they are showing up with some scheme in mind…

I'd say that it's rare but in our saga (started in 2020 and +70 years ingame) one player goes into twilight often (basically a criamon even without the house) but succeeded. he has received like 7-10 virtues from twilight. The price being he has already a score of 9 (260+ xp) in warping.
The final twilight is a real menace. (He is aware of it, but when play comes, he cannot stop himself to use spontaneous magic which he doesn't master at all). The golden cord helps but just to a certain point.

Players have flawless magic and one has currently no familiar, his previous one died in a lab explosion incident. So I'd say 1 botch on a magical activity on average per session for each player, and 1 or 2 other botches in non magic thing (ability, etc.).

Most botches come from spontaneous magic in not beneficial auras (especially divine one) or using vis, or during a scene where i considered the base number of botch dices to be > 1.

Also you must consider the tendancy of players to lie about their rolls and that a player will more likely say the truth if he feels that the rolls are seen by anyone.
If you let player do the roll on their side (discord/web saga) or without anyone able to see at the table, you can never be sure of the truth of the announcement of any roll. That's something to be taken into account.
For that reason I like rolls done in the center of the table (or on a bot on a discord/web saga anyone can see the result).

How many rolls do you make per session? That to me seems like a bogus ammount of spells cast.

You… really don’t have to take that into account. We are adults and we haven’t come here to lie about a dice result. Let’s be serious.

I'd say between fifty and hundred rolls per session maybe? hard to say.
As for your second comment, well I'd really love to think adults are immune to cheating. Life doesn't show that.

That… seems like a lot of rolls, to be honest. A (magic) roll every 2-4 minutes is an incredibly high number according to my experience.

To be frank, if you send someone in Twilight during a Wizard's War - you've demonstrated you can overwhelm his magic resistance - and chose not to kill him. This is similar to certamen, actually, and a Tribunal ruling that illegal would be a very weird ruling to me.

I don't really know. It also depends on the length of the session. Our current session duration is 8-9 hours. One session I remember, one player (with the twilight prone flaw and a score of 9) cast like 20 times the same spontaneous spell in a 5 minutes irl time representing like 14-20 ingame days. He was making a 1km long tunnel to bypass a siege. (And I "facilitated the process" by not making him roll for stealth to create the tunnel and casting fatigueless ReTe to throw the earth outside by crawling in the tunnel but needing finesse : I only made him roll 20 times even if the activity itself would have taken a lot of more of rolls seen the difficulty to move 10m³ of earth while crawling in the dark without light source, stale air, need for quietness, with enemies' patrols having a (low) chance to find the tunnel entrance. (For the fun, two sheperd boys did find it. He made them asleep and teleported one away but the other ran away. That one came back with a patrol of enemies, so he killed them all and started to keep watch from time to time and shortened his sleep a lot.).)

Lets for a moment assume that this was done; A tribunal rules that any mage who forces his opponent in a wizard war into twilight has lost. What exactly would that mean? Wizard Wars are not like certamen with declared stakes based on a formal win or loss. You have one month in which you can do whatever you can manage to your opponent. If they leave their sanctum unguarded (whether because they are off on an expedition or in the middle of twilight) you are free to raid that sanctum (subject to the rights of the other magi in the covenant). If you kill them that is fine to. Wizard war is by definition a "no rules" conflict with a caveat about when it begins and ends if you want to avoid prosecution.

So how exactly would you enforce a "not cricket" rule about the other magus winning? "I have your lab notes, your books, your magic items, and your apprentice which I raided during the bounds of the wizard war, but now that you have returned three years later, I am compelled to inform you that you have technically won"