A question: I went back to craft magic, and I noticed this fine bit:
The character my craft objects that already contain vis into lesser magical enchantments. The vis must be part of the object, and this does not require a season, but a crafted effect (using casting total instead of lab total). Also, the level of effect may not exceed 5pawns (instead of 10pawns for normal items).
Now, I will admit, my first thought was "It's Magic carpet time" but I wonder: would this work if I put the vis in an item via Divide the gathered essense, or does dhe need to have wood/cloth that somehow already countains vis? It seems to me that yes (also, otherwise, this'd me that, for exemple, she'd need wood with preexisting Ignem vis in it for a CrIg effect, cloth with preexisting mentem vis...) but, since this would allow her to do lesser item at a faster rate (although with less power and twice the vis cost), I think it's better to talk this out.
I would say that the cloth must already contain the vis. I see this as bringing forward the inherent magical qualities of the item. having craft magic this is not a big problem, though, since you are likely to have a high Rego and finesse to shape the item to the shape you want it to have. But "no" to changing wildwind snow into a flying carpet.
For the record, flying carpets are extremely uncomfortable and dangerous for travel. Much better to use a flying boat or anything that is more stable.
The same magic that makes the carpet fly makes it flat and stable. Yeah, it could tip over and fly upside down and drop the passenger. So can the boat. The carpet can be rolled up or folded for convienent use (escape out your window if you have too). A boat, not so much. Further magic could shrink it though.
As for inherit vis, you can't take the vis out of one item and put it into another, but you can move the vis of an item and concentrate it in the part of the item you later use. I myself think this counts as inherit, but I would hear the opinions of others and see what they think. For example, say a Firedrake worth 5 Ignem, normally concentrated in the heart. Or you could boil the whole carcass into a mush and the vis would be in the mush. Or you could RegoVim the vis from one part of the body to another, say a single scale. My PoV, it is the drake that held the vis, and the scale is just as much of a natural contiginous part of the drake as the heart. Use said scale to make a natural ward against heat & flames, bolt it onto a shield.
Yes, no problems with the drake example. What I would not allow is taking the ignem vis and (as per the RAW lab transfer rules) put the 5 pawns in a plank of wood, and then making the plank of wood project a ward against heat and flames on the room using craft magic to generate it. Now would I allow Rego or Auram vis that is not part of the carpet to start with to be transferred to the cloth and enchant the cloth afterwards via craft magic. Given that, it could be said that you need to enchant the hear tof the drake to be able to use it with Craft magic, but I would allow the rules to be bent here since the origin of the Vis is the same continuous item/creature.
If the hair used to make the carpet came from a creature with vis (such as a vis yak or a magic sheep), and the vis of said creature was concentrated into the hair used to make a carpet/cloak/whatever, then this would work by my standard. To charge the hair with vis and then make it a carpet would not count.
Okay, at this point I would like to open a discussion of what we want to do with Mallorca.
My original vision was a minor side thing, and more important, the idea was to introduce junior magi with Journeyman status. It was taken out of my hands and the concept expanded much larger than I originally intended. One of my conditions in handing over power was to not pull a sudden ditch-out on us and drop the whole thing in my lap.
Which is what happened anyway. And I have no idea where Ryu was planning to go with it.
And honestly, I care more about the characters than about the chapter. I want to play Roberto really-really bad. I like Fightmasters Jerbiton character, the new pharmecopian, the shark Bjornaer, and all. Thalassa is irrelevant and no longer a concern.
But on a similar note, what should I do with Vulcanus and Tiana? Normally I clear old magi out and make room for new players. Tiana can be shipped off easily enough. But Vulcanus is very tied into the fabric of our covenant. Arachne hates him and Carmen would be glad to see him go, but he is married to Fedora and he is our resident Valdarian.
I am NOT glad to see Ryu go, and on a non-personal level, I liked Vulcanus and wish he was still with us in this game.
But it is what it is. Vulcanus is tied into the covenant because he married Fedorra and has had children by her. I don't want to loose Tiana and Fedora. That kills the entire Redcap aspect of our saga.
I need help figuring this out and deciding which way to go next.
If you’re up for it, I’d recommend we go back to your original idea. I’m cool with Mallorca being a side thing, and for me the cool part about the chapterhouse is the Journeyman status and how they will have to interact with the masters at Andorra. One thing I had mentioned before is that we as players can always get the journeymen more involved as well by tasking them to support missions for the masters.
So, for example, when Solomon decides to head down to Egypt, maybe he requests support from the Chapterhouse.
Yeah, I’ve been thinking about this too. For Tiana, we could say that she just gets assigned to another Mercere house for some reason. Or, if we want to keep her tangentially connected, she could maintain the Andorra portal house in Barcelona that we will have once Solomon has the chance to broker that deal.
As for Vulcanus, I’d say we leave him at the covenant in an NPC status doing his own thing (maybe researching Valdarian mysteries or something). He never was much of an adventuring type anyway, and he didn’t get along that well with most of the other magi. He could even keep up the grog magic weapons and armor; just not make special stuff for the magi (maybe the sting of Vibria’s “betrayal” after making her armor has led him to not want to make anything for the other magi). I’d say it’s up to PB if Fedora stays married to him or not and how much he factors into any stories at the covenant.
I much preferred your original plan, with all of us scattered around Mallorca with our own unique sanctums (sancti? sancta?). Stories can come from masters approaching journeymen, as PoB suggests, or maybe one of us will get a wild hair and run a story for them.
Tiana's probably expendable, but Vulc is not, IMO. I say keep him around in his lab, burning through vis and creating wonders. If one of us has an idea for a major covenant item (like some of the library defenses we've touched on), we can just say Vulc crafts it if it's within his capabilities.
I'm currently ambivalent about Mallorca. My concerns were (and to a degree, still are) that it would become a full-fledged saga competing for attention within the Andorra saga. Which, to be honest, is still a little overwhelming at times with all the history and the gazillion old posts and the wiki full of what appear to me to be outdated information. And when we started recruiting a full saga's worth of new players, I grew more concerned. This is not a slight against any of the Mallorca players, but rather my opinion that this should have been treated as a separate "spin-off" saga from the get-go.
But that's all water under the bridge. My personal suggestion for Mallorca is, if you're intent on keeping it, run it as a separate saga with its own forum, sharing the wiki, and allow cross-overs.
As far as being determined to run Roberto...I have to say I have concerns about that, too, and similar to the concerns I have/had with Carmen. To wit, I can very easily see him becoming a Mary Sue and dominating the story to the point where the other players wonder why they're there. Especially if it's a character that you're incredibly fond of and just HAVE to play. The temptation can be overwhelming. Suggestion: run him (and her?) in one of the...erm...well, crap. Looks like there's only three other sagas active here, and maybe five on RPOL.net. Well, crap.
As for Vulcanus, I really, really don't want to get rid of Fédora just because Ryu had life happen. He was supposed to be pretty much a lab-rat anyway, and I'm fine with her running interference for him until Ryu's life situation gets to where he feels like he's able to play again. (Thus my tongue-in-cheek picture a couple of days ago).
A second full fledged saga is not at all what I want from this. We have long lost sight of the inspiration that sparked the original idea, but really what I am interested in is the characters we created for it. Magi of Journeyman status to play up our tiered membership ranking system. They could be in Mallorca, Barcelona, or in the covenant proper. The saga is about the Covenant of Andorra and the magi that are part of it. The separate locations idea was also an effort to focus the stories on character driven plots as opposed to a micro covenant.
I also want to point out that I never recruited anyone. People recruit themselves and want to join the saga all the time. CunningRat never even asked to join. He just started posting out of nowhere. And he is long gone. One other guy started and quit within a few weeks. JL entertained the idea and chose not to play after all. So the only new player is Rodriguez and his pharmecopeian maga Cynara. And she is in Barcelona and I was planning on putting that character in the main covenant.
So really, the junior magi at this point consist only of Cynara, Pere, and Roberto. The Shark Bjornaer (forgot his name, so sorry) has yet to make an appearance. So that is 4 junior magi, three from established players and one new player.
I especially do not want a separate forum.
And I think you misunderstand my concept. I can scrap the chapterhouse and just go with junior magi at the main covenant and be happy. Any chapterhouse would be part and parcel of our covenant, and Masters can be just as involved as anyone. Vibria would be free to hang out there and make junior magi do stuff for her.
The few thousand old posts are irrelevant and should not confuse you. Simply put, you probably should not bother reading them. It is information your character wouldn't know, and if anything is ever relevant to a current story I will always recap the salient knowledge. As for the Wiki, more has been contributed in the last year than all the time previous. And much effort has been made in updating it. Tell me what is still left to fix, and I will get on it.
As for Roberto, I can't help that he is super awesome
But I see your point. He is substantially less powerful than Carmen though. And in Ars Magica, the storyguide is also a player and gets to run a character of their own. I will happily NPC Carmen if I can play Roberto, a Junior in status to the rest of you, as my storyguide character instead.
And I don't do RPOL.
I really hope one of you could run a story once in a while so I could play him with freedom. Hell, I think you all should run an occasional story just on general principle of the spirit of troupe style play. But I shall not twist arms. But I should mention some of you are doing that unwittingly. The Vibria gets drunk story. PB, you are the beta SG for that. You created it. If any player decides to have their character wake you up and deal with your hangover, running that is on you. My hands are off, I will just comment. In the sandbox thread (chapter III), all of that is on you guys. You are free to just play. Major decisions on RAW are on Fixer. I decide where we can deviate from RAW, as in our house rules (and changes require troupe approval). But his rulings on how RAW is interpreted ultimately triumph mine. Even in stories I run.
And at the very least, let me roleplay the guy. I will keep him out of major stories and combats and dice rolls. I will write his epic adventures off stage and just have him interact with magi when he is at the covenant and in council meetings.
Is that a fair compromise?
Vulcanus as an NPC, that's the bigger problem. He outshadows the player-characters by making any item they desire and making anything better, taking the creative opportunities away from players. And he has a history of not making what we want or helping in the lab or being cooperative at all. And who gets stuck designing these items?
I see you do not count Arnau as a new character nor me as a new player I have been waiting around for Andorra to start playing, and in fact Arnau was supposed to be a sort of linchpin in the new chapterhouse design by ryu since he was supposed to rule the Sa Dragonera island under mundane law. I have not participated in the active threads because well, Arnau is not around to play in them. But well, whatever you decide. I am not very keen on the spread out design for the chapterhouse, because it means 4-5 chapterhouses or hermit magi, but then I have never played in internet sagas before and have no idea if this would hold water or not. I know that as a real world storyguide I do not like separate locations, but the internet might solve that somewhat.
I am so sorry I forgot Xavi!!! OMG, please forgive me!!!
See, it's because you are not a new player, you are one of the old-old originals. And Arnau is not a magus, so it slipped my mind. I have been distracted by personal problems. I had a flat tire. There was a terrible storm. Locusts!
And as for you, I was waiting for Ryu to do whatever Ryu was going to do with you. I had no idea.
Roberto had been discussing Arnau with Vocis in the "Turn the Tide" thread though.
You can also create some grogs to play, or even another companion level character
And I am hatching a new idea. Scrap the entire chapterhouse idea. Or reconceive it anyway. Turn it into a story that can go various directions. Here is the set up...
Roberto was a squatter in Ibiza when he encountered Arnau on the hunt for wizards allied with Moslem forces on the islands.
Latter, in the Christmas in Barcelona thread, Cynara makes mention of a map. This is a map to a large vis source somewhere in the Balearic Islands. This will come to light during the fruition of that story.
A magus from Bellaquin in Provencal has discovered the ruins of a failed covenant on Mallorca and acquired some damaged books from heir library. One mentions a large vis source, but details of the location are lost. Andorra learns of this from the Jerbiton magi in Barcelona, with or without the map. The map gives us a head start though.
The islands are in a gray area, for the charter of that ruined covenant declared no tribunal allegiance. It could be claimed by Iberia or Rome, but Provencal may try to take aim. For no other reason that to force Andorra into a pinch between Provencal and Iberia (Iberia gets the Balearic Islands and Provencal gets Andorra if the deal works).
This may be paranoia, but it is a concern. Vocis heard rumors from Tiana and the Exarch Markus of Tremere.
A plan is hatched to form an expedition to find this vis source and stake a claim on it. Roberto is recruited for this purpose. Barcelona sends Pere. We encounter Sharko during the adventure somehow. Arnau is already there hunting for enemy wizards. But are they our enemies? Cynara is the one that has some inside knowledge of somekind, having tracked down the map for a reason.
And any other character that wants to join the adventure can feel free to do so.
Afterward, when the dust has settled, we can decide what to do with what we have done. Maybe everyone goes back to Andorra, maybe it is worth future side stories, maybe it becomes epic and worthy of a new forum, or maybe it is just dust. We will see what happens.
No problems with that. I see the balearic islands as Iberian with no question at all myself, unless there are parts of the iberian peninsula that are not part of the tribunal. But in any case, no biggie if the idea is to have a holdout of independence around.
Ryu mentioned the option of having Arnau join the OoH (ExMiscellanea) and grant the character the gentle gift and Parma as SG (ryu's) fiat. I have not changed the character sheet yet, but I can do that if the rest of the troupe things will be easier this way. Arnau has a large soak anyway (17+) so he can withstand quite a lot of punishment even without Parma, but I can introduce him to the Order if that is easier. So, no to "join or die" but yes to "well, you can join and you get better stuff,a dn we add Parma to the deal FOR FREE!". No to sticks, yes to carrots :mrgreen:
Keep in mind that I did that because A) I thought Ryu was moderating the story, and B) because it seem like the natural reaction of a dyed in the wool Flambeau magus :mrgreen:
Thoughts on Arnau with the Gentle Gift...
As a Gifted Companion: Drop Firecaster and take Gentle Gift, Fire Caster then becomes your Free Supernatural Ability for having the Gift (totally legit).
Major parts of Navarre and Basque country are located in Provencal, and they have disputed claim on Andorra. Ane claim on the islands would be weak (I was just running with Ryu's premise), but I would say that Rome might be able to make a claim if they establish a Covenant there. Maybe that is what they Provencal magi plan?
There is a precedent of "I was there first" with Rome establishing a covenant in Tunis, so it is not out of the question for the islands to move to some others tribunal if it places a covenant there. maybe the Rhine tribunal wants to start the current German colonization somewhat earlier? :mrgreen:
My troupe played a "covenant race" for the isle of Mann during the last years. It was lots of fun, so this can work.
Completely random question for the group - how do I type letters with accent marks in the forum? None of the buttons above the entry field seem to do the trick and I don't know where else to look. I feel so unsophisticated spelling Spanish and Portuguese names like an ignorant monolingual hoosier. I mean, I am an ignorant monolingual hoosier, but still...
I just look the word up somewhere on the internet. Wikipedia is good for words with odd letters and accent marks. Then I just copy/paste. I do the same with symbols generated with word.
I usually use (well, almost always) type out my response in my word processing program (I use OpenOffice) and either use Insert>Special Character or one of the alt+number commands. alt-codes.net has a pretty comprehensive list. Some I've used enough to remember. Like é is alt+130, and £ is alt+156.
but I wonder: would this work if I put the vis in an item via Divide the gathered essense, or does dhe need to have wood/cloth that somehow already countains vis? It seems to me that yes (also, otherwise, this'd me that, for exemple, she'd need wood with preexisting Ignem vis in it for a CrIg effect, cloth with preexisting mentem vis...) but, since this would allow her to do lesser item at a faster rate (although with less power and twice the vis cost), I think it's better to talk this out.
.
I have been waiting around for Andorra to start playing, and in fact Arnau was supposed to be a sort of linchpin in the new chapterhouse design by ryu since he was supposed to rule the Sa Dragonera island under mundane law. I have not participated in the active threads because well, Arnau is not around to play in them. But well, whatever you decide. I am not very keen on the spread out design for the chapterhouse, because it means 4-5 chapterhouses or hermit magi, but then I have never played in internet sagas before and have no idea if this would hold water or not. I know that as a real world storyguide I do not like separate locations, but the internet might solve that somewhat.
