General Table Talk

I like your idea fixer. But as I started to respond, I wrote a baillion useless words for ideas and clarificaton. Then deleated it. Simpler is better. These bugs are just some of the natural inherit flaws of Hermetic magic.

There is no Duration: Constant for spells. But an invested effect can run be "truly constant" (ArM5 p.99). I had misread this before as triggering an sunrise and sunset, and so actually being D: Sun. But David explained that I had misread this. That is the point of the comment about not flickering. Running two D: Sun effect would have one fall at sunset and a brief moment later another replace it, the flickering mentioned. In this case it's "truly constant," meaning it's not two D: Sun's which would flicker but instead something different that does not flicker.

Realize, this isn't my decision. This is the official version of constant effects. And where it has mattered follow-up books have been consistent on this. Or, to put it really simply, I said what you're saying to David and he told me I was wrong.

ArM5 Limit of Creation says it applies to all uses of Creo, not just to heal living beings. It's also stated in the Criamon section of HoH:MC.

I'd have to ask David about that. I don't have the book.

Let's talk about Spell Mastery.
There are a few I wrote in SR a long time ago that I want to consider introducing into this game. And some I have ideas for or changes to make.

  • Flexible Casting - Choose one parameter of the spell (R/D/T). When casting the spell, you may alter this parameter in a single way by up to one Magnitude. Which way this parameter is flexed (up, down, or sideways) is determined when this mastey is chosen. If you choose this Mastery a second time, you can flex a different parameter or direction. You cannot flex two parameters at once unless the combination of the two is chosen as a third mastery. Flexing cannot be considered when designing a spell, it must stand on it's own. This Mastery is fully compatible with Flexible Formulaic Magic, and the effects may be stacked or combined.

  • Vascilated Casting-When you cast a spell, you are able to "hold" it by concentrating, opting to release or decline it later as you choose. When releasing a held spell, you may do so quickly as if Fast Cast (this is horribly inefficient though).

  • Forceful Casting - When you cast the spell, you may opt to do so more forcefully or vigorously (this is always accompanied by a Loud Voice and Exaggerated Gestures). The effect is more intense somehow, though this may often be merely cosmetic. But you get to add your Mastery score to things such as Damage directly applied or follow up rolls such as in Lay to Rest the Haunting Spirit or Winds of Mundane Silence. This bonus depends on the math of the spell, and if in a lower yeild guideline, the bonus is one-fifth mastery (round up).

  • Introspective Casting - This allows you to add your Mastery score to effects concerning complexity or understanding. Again, this may be cosmetic, but may provide a bonus.

  • Optimized - This requires Lab Mastery, and likewise only applies when instilling the spell as an Enchantment. For the purpose of calculating the amount of Vis needed, subtract your Mastery from the level. This does not make the enchantment easier (Lab Mastery does that), just less expensive.

  • Certamen - If both duelists know the spell and have this Mastery and duel using these Arts and spell in agreement, Mastery is of great benefit. You may add Mastery to either Attack or Defense as you choose from round-to-round, and many Mastery skills have obvious direct application (Penetration, Resistance, Imperturbable). The spell in question is usually the Victory spell, but this may be declined if severe. This is known as the style/school of Inirelte, who developed the idea for use with the Test of Flames. She would leave her defeated opponents to lay unconsious in the fire.

How readily available are these home brews?

If we're going to talk about spell mastery, then I'd like to point out that even though "everyone knows" to master rituals in order to reduce botch dice (and how the hell that works in game is beyond me), there are absolutely no decent options for ritual spell mastery abilities that are beholden to one mystery cult or the other. I mean seriously? Not one mastery ability that is useful for casting Aegis of the Hearth. Not one. In ALL of canon.

Oh no? Most people require Penetration for the Aegis. I don't. But Imperturbable is useful for such lengthy casting times. Lab Mastery is useful for inventing an Aegis at ever higher levels. If you have the vis to spare, you could multicast the Aegis in layers or over different spots (giving visitors only partial access). Stalwart is always good.

Stalwart Casting is also excellent for rituals. And one of the Mutantes ones rocks for rituals - can't even use the normal Virtue on rituals but the mastery option can be so useful. Of course Lab Mastery, Stalwart Casting, and that last one all have limited access which makes the system terrible if you're not from one of those groups.

Well, lets free up some access. Lab Mastery should obviously be available to Verditius magi.

I would make Lab Mastery open to anyone.

I think most magi descend from some sort of Mercurian lineage. Flambeau for certain. I also think that it is RAW that masteries are open to everyone, you just need to justify (backstory) where you picked up some of the exotic ones from.

By the RAW, Lab Mastery and Stalwart Casting are Cult of Mercury only. Multicast would significantly increase the number of potential botch dice, not reduce it.

How would Lab Mastery apply to, for example, Aegis of the Hearth? Bountiful Feast?The Shrouded Glen? Any of the Creo Corpus rituals? Conjuring the Mystic Tower? Hermes Portal? Enchantment of the Scrying Pool? Those are the rituals that I see most commonly used or sought after in games.

Granted, some of these are Not Exactly Hermetic, but I'd argue that allows for us to grab some restricted mastery abilities and make them available just for that one spell. For example, I think it'd make a lot of sense if Adaptive Casting was widely known for Aegis of the Hearth, but otherwise restricted.

Doissetep is a huge bastion for the Cult of Mercury. It's easily justified for anyone living there learning any spell mastery option associated with them.

A flambeau, in Magi of Hermes.

Yes, but...
If you cast a healing spell with sun duration on someone, he is healed for the spell's duration.
When the spell duration lapses, the wounds open again, but if you instantly casts the spell again, the target is healed anew.
I think he meant something like this.

First, I think it may be better/interesting to maybe let interested players develop specific masteries as minor breakthroughs,or to have these be released "ingame" as the result of some bonisagus research, so you might want not to have at least some of these exist at the start of the game. That being said:

  • Flexible: Not a fan, I think it diminishes bosted casting a little, but otherwise, it's OK.
  • Vascilated: Love it. Period.
  • Forceful: Forget it. Not only is it too weak (Mastery 5 to have your BoaF do 36 damage?), but there's already Unraveling Mastery for WomS, and Apotropaic Mastery for DEO. You should consider Barbed Mastery, though.
  • Introspective: Hum... Why not? I mean, you perceive things, but do you understand them? Or, say, a Per bonus to perceive anything through this spell? Dunno.
  • Optimized: Yes. It gives another incentive for developing the spell before investing it.I'd say it can't bring the vis cost to less than half the normal, though.
  • Certamen: Useless outside of cult-specific instances. I can't see it being very much used, if at all.


So I'd say, and ONLY for rituals (keeps the risk in battle, and rituals already incurr a whole lot of botch dices:

  • Ritual Mastery: You are used to casting this specific ritual flawlessly. Substract one the number of botch dices rolled due to the vis used to cast the ritual. Each new instance of the mastery substract another die.

Redundant. The base definition of Mastery is that add it to casting score and subtract it from the number of botch dice, down to zero. Or are you suggesting that Ritual Mastery subtracts an ADDITIONAL botch die?

Yes, but only for the vis.

If casting the minimum Aegis (lvl 20), you already incurr 4 extra botch dices just for the vis used.
This mastery would enable you to avoid these with only Mastery 2 instead of 4. This makes mastery of rituals really valuable, especially when combined with Ritual Magic.
For a more extreme exemple, a lvl 40 aegis incurrs 8 extra botch dices. Mastery 4 would negate these completely. Mastery 2 for a mercurian. Mercurians rules with ritual spells, which, IMO, is great.

You wanted an incentive for magi to master ritual spells? You wanted to know why Mercurians are the guys that cast big rituals? Here it is.

It reduces even more botch dice is the idea I think.
Vascilted was something Carmen had, but I ditched it and wanna re-add it.
Flex got let loose in my Knights of Seneca article, and Guillme makes extensive use of it. I did write that thing, so he was just following my groundwork. For now, I say limit to Gillme and the few spells he has it for. This one may need to be refined a bit. As for Boost, that is Mutantes, this is meant for Mercurians.
Love Barbed Mastery! That was sorta my idea.
Apatropaic, I forgot about :blush: . Does it work with WoMS though?
I like the idea of custom masteries for specific spells.

These are mainly just ideas I am tossing out there :smiley:

No, but Unraveling does.

And OK for Flex being limited to guillaume and his cult at chargen (Unless this bugs someone else?). This is great. Hum, IMO, I mean, of course :blush:

I agree with you, but he was doing it with Momentary duration.

Having thought more about it, I do like Fixer's constant magic idea. There are other problems with having constant flaming swords and the like which would probably tend to limit a lot of the constant stuff.

I have been thinking of Mercurian Spell Masteries and loosening them up a bit. Perhaps the level of access depends on how Mercurian an influence there is in your lineage. For example, any Hermetic Magus can take Cerimonial Casting. Stalwart Casting requires a strong Mercurian heritage. Flambeau himself was Mercurian, not Mithraic. This lie is propogated by those who seek to achieve influence and control over that house. These myths have not circulated much in Iberia. We all know his name was Reculed Seneca.

Anyway, as for new Mastery abilities, Flex casting is restricted to the Cult of Mercury. Vascilated is open to everyone. Optimized is for those with Lab Mastery and/or Verditius magi. Ritual Mastey (lowering botch dice further) is Mercurian.
I like Barbed Mastery, but I prefer calling it Forceful Casting anyway. Introspecive got a good review :slight_smile:, other ideas are considered.

Input anyone? Detractons? Attractions? Subtractions? Satisfactions?

As you can see, I have made some changes to the format of this saga's forum. Stuff important to evryone gets put up in the top box (Anouncements). Characters, when ready, are copied to a clean post and I will make it a Sticky so that it floats to the top. Keep your individual development threads. We can use these to log history, refer to earlier ages of yourself (for flashback stories or new stories depending on your past) and general discussion about the character (such as lab projects and seasonal advancment in game).
Everything else is a Standard Topic, floating to the top (below stickys) depending on how recently it was posted in. Active story chapters float to the top. Active table talk floats up as well. Old stuff sinks down and gets forgotten.
Post your character anew when you are ready to play!
Have fun :smiley: