Lab Text Restrictions

I just re-read the set of restrictions on Lab Texts, MRB 102.

This seems to imply that a magus cannot use any lab texts to instill effects in his talisman, but that he COULD use lab texts for his talisman to create other Greater or Lesser Enchantments.

Also, is there any way to create a lab text for a Greater Device that instills multiple effects from different Tech/Forms in a single season.

For example:

  • The Fountain's Constant Motion ReAq19 (Base 4 + 1 Touch +2 Sun +4 Always on), causes the water to move about like a bubbling hot spring or Roman bath
  • Test The Waters InIg 9 (Base 2, +1 Touch, +2 Sun, +4 always on), an Intellego spell to determine the temperature of the water.
  • Heat the Waters CrIg(Aq)23 (Base 3 +1 Touch +1 Conc +5 item concentrates +10 unlimited +3 linked to Test the Waters), heats the water to a soothingly warm temperature

Could I find or create a lab text that allows someone to create this in a single season?

First part, right.

Second part, heck no. One form + technique per season. In theory, if your scores were high enough, you might be able to abuse the rules for interrupted seasonal lab work (minimum of one month for one third of your lab total) to create three "mini-seasons" out of one season, but I would require an Original Research breakthrough to do more then one f/t a season. Remembering that you don't have to finish the Original Research, you can get your rule breaking breakthrough and stop.....

If at all he could use them to instill effects into other invested devices, but not create lesser enchantments (since these are specifically different from lab texts for greater enchantments).

Also he would be the only one able to use these lab texts.

As for the single-season enchantment... don't think it could be done. Haven't read up on multiple seasonal activities though (also not sure if there are actual rules for that).

There are not actual rules for that. It is an extrapolation of the rules for interrupted seasons of lab work. There, it is mentioned that you can still get some use out of a season even if you lost two months to something, implying that the smallest unit of usable lab time is one month. So, in theory, one season being made up of three months, you could work three interrupted "seasons" on one month each in one season. Actually useful for things that don't have a lab score, like fixing arcane connections or Items of Quality, if your ST allows it.....

Arg three Items of Quality a season. The twinkery The munchkinism. I would never allow that as an ST. Now if someone else where running the game I think I might try to get it past them. :smiling_imp:

Those IoQ's do take up quite a bit of time and who really has space in their scheduled to fix arcane connections. It's not like they can just wait for you to get an Apprentice.

Now if I can just convince them to let me take the Doesn't Sleep virtue.

Yes, most STs will read the virtue and say "It says it takes a season". Now, if you are making Items of Quality, your Magic Theory is probably high, so the simple solution is Original Research/Ancient Magic. It's going to be really easy, since you aren't breaking or even blunting any of the Limits, you're just being a little more efficient with a low powered virtue. Unless you are going for House status, you don't need to "incorporate" it, so spend a few seasons to get a Breakthrough and stop. Or, you know, keep going, until you figure out how to make and Open multiple Items of Quality in one season! Watch the bootlicking start!

Whoa, rein the horse please! About missing time in lab, please re-read ArM5 page 103, header starting in middle column.

You can squander up 10 days and still make the project work. Missing 11 or more days encur a flat -10 in addition to -2 per day missed over ten. To a maximum of -30 after 20 missed days. Beyond this no lab projects are possible. I certainly don't interpret the projects needing no specific Lab Totals (like Items of Quality, Fixing ACs etc.) as being able to disregard this.

Now, about reading, study, training etc it is noted in ArM5 page 165, header 'Distractions' central column that each month of time lost reduces Quality by 1/3. Not lab projects.

As for stuff that uses lab totals, one guideline (IF you want to allow it) might be: Use the lower of both lab totals. Add the levels of the effects you want to achieve together. Compare.

Are we talking about multiple lab activities?
I believe core rules state that you can, but they must be same activity (e.g. invent spells), be of same TeFo, and you simply add the levels and compare the total to the Lab Total.
Our House Rule is that you can also mix in that some effects use lab texts and some don't. Simply count the level for the spell you have on text as half when adding up the spell levels, and if the lab total is twice that you invent them all (sin you merely need to exceed the level´). Useful for low level spells, and when you have levels "left over" and fill the gaps for efficiency. E.g. Constantine wants to invent PeVi "Unraveling the Fabric of Imaginem" because he is tired of not being able to stop his Veil of Invisibility. He recons a level 10 is sufficient, but his Lab Total is actually 26 so he can easily invent it in only one season, with some to spare. He also has Demon's Eternal Oblivion level 5 on text. He can stack them for effective level 12,5 and his lab total 26 is at least double that.

See the original post. I was asking if it's possible to write up a Lab Text for a Greater Device which would allow you to instill several Te/Fo combos in a single season.

You can't make a DEO less than 10, since the guidelines are might reduction of Lvl+10.

Second, I'm not sure where you're getting the 12.5 from. The math is (10x2)+5=25 < 26. I suppose you're using the lab text to divide by 2?

There's a spell in Magi of Hermes, Snip the Thread of a Faerie's Might, which is base 0. It seems to be based on the same guideline as DEO "Reduce a target's Might Score by the level of the spell + 10...."

Base 0 made me think it was a typo at first. But makes sense. I guess we could have a negative base if we really wanted to.


...I think maybe you're confused about causality here?
If you read it strictly by RAW, I can certainly create a DEO with a base of 1 - whch by RAW would result in a level 3 spell (base 1, +2 voice), which stripped 11 might off whatever demon it targetted. It would also result in a sever bruising when the rest of the troupe beat you up for it.

I trust the errata has this as "+2 magnitudes", meaning that a level 5 DEO is base 3, +2 Voice and strips 5 might.
This one, multi cast, is the one we're all complaining about.

Pretty sure that's what he means - he's just being a silly sod.

We've always had a house rule IMSs that says you can do multiple form/technique combos in a single season. You just use your lowest lab total.

So in the fountain example in the original post you check your Re, Cr, In and Aq and Ig and work out what the lowest combination is. Then thats your lab total. Don't think we've ever used lab texts with these rules. Would have to think how they fit in.

We mainly did this as our magi wanted to create multiple low level formulaic spells but we agreed it should be a sub optimal way of doing it.

My saga hasn't gotten to labwork yet, but this seems reasonable.

That might actually be a good idea.
Otherwise you have magi spending multiple seasons to cover the 3-4 TeFo combos, but they also invent some other minor spells than the ones thay want to, to "fill up" any excess levels from too hig lab totals for easy spells. I don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing. We've often had players be very creative and invnt some clever spells with low levels as these "filler" projects. But the spell lists on character sheets get very long!

It does indeed! Our resume sheets are in a triple column format to make sure (most) spells are there.


I mostly use Ars Magica as a system to figure out ways to harness technology to my nerdism. Thus, my character spells are all listed under a separate spreadsheet file.

You should see what we're doing with Google Maps.

Oh? Do tell! (And show...)

Jonathon.Link started this, not me, so I'm not going to give you the direct link. But here's a screen shot:

A bit big for here, but if you click it, you can see the full image.

Pfft. Amateur. Every covenant from every book that I have (all the 5e Tribunal books, plus Lions of the North, Heirs to Merlin, Sanctuary of Ice, The Dragon and the Bear, and Tribunals of Hermes: Iberia), and every saga that I've played in. With room for more.