[Magic Item] Gift of Euronotus

Games Discussion Ars Magica
1

Gift of Euronotus
Cr(Re)Au(Aq) 16
Pen: +0, 2/day
R: Personal, D: Concentration, T: Group

The effect create a bubble of air around the wearer, repeling the water and allowing them to breath and move around unimpeded underwater.

Enchanted in a polished wooden ring inscribed with the trigger sentence and with a tiny agate inserted.

(Base 1, +2 very unnatural, +1 concentration, +2 special based on Group, +5 device maintain concentration, +1 for 2 uses per day)

The Rego and Aquam requisite don't add level because the effect is mostly cosmetic.
What do you people think of this lesser enchantment? The goal is to be able to walk on the bottom of the ocean and cast ritual spells (like Tear the Earth Asunder and The Wedding Ring of Gaea)

2

If the final effect level of 16 isn't a hard limit because of your Lab Total, I'd recommend increasing the uses per day - if you can boost it to a Final level of 20 you'd have 24x/day, in case you need to use it multiple times or the effect gets dispelled or whatever - it shouldn't increase the vis needed since you're not going over 20.

I'm not sure you'd need Group - Individual should be enough, based on the description of Individual at the start of the Auram section of Spells on page 125 of the core book.

I'm not sure the requisites are cosmetic, however, particularly the Rego - you are after all more or less creating a bubble of air and enchanting that bubble with a version of the spell Cloak of the Duck's Feathers. If I create a volume of air around me while on the surface, rain can still get me wet without a similar spell. Also, check out Circling Winds of Protection on the same page - it has a Rego req that boosts level.

3

Yes I could have upped the number of uses per day to maximize vis use but it is not very important.

You are absolutely right about the Rego requisite. So +1.
And the Aquam requisite?

4

I'm not sure about the aquam requisite being cosmetic. If one takes the point of view that the water would rush in to the bubble without the spell holding it back then I don't see it as cosmetic. (From my point of view you'd need to argue that the world doesn't work that way but I don't have a clear idea of how).

I believe I wrote a very similar spell in the Hermanus chapter of Legends of Hermes. I don't have the book with me at the moment so I can't give you the level breakdown, and it was years ago I don't remember precisely how I explained the effect.

5

There's the Ring of Aquatic Freedom, enchanted with Beyind the Reach of the Sea (ReAq 34, LoH, p. 106), preferbly combined with the Breeze from Within (CrAu 20, same page).

6

Sadly I do not have this book.
I felt that 15(+ uses) was a bit low. With the two requisites it becomes 25(+ uses). That's a bit higher than I'd like. Especially with the requisites that lowers the Lab Total. But it should be good.

With this ring the magi should be able to cast rituals on the bottom of the ocean. Next, surviving the underwater eruption of a newborn volcano.

7

Bolding mine.

Oh, I don't know...having the extra uses per day might just come in handy if you are underwater and someone or something cancels/dispels the effect. Considering that the bubble of air created by the spell likely qualifies as a "Room" under the Target definition of such, a stock Wind of Mundane Silence might just be an issue. Re-triggering the item while the water above falls on you is likely easier and quicker and safer than trying to fast cast a spontaneous spell under the same circumstances.

8

Hmm, in my view, this is not a CrAu effect with requisites.
Its main effect is not the creation of a weather phenomenon.
Its main effect is instead a ReAq effect, possibly without requisites; I would look at effects like Break the Incoming Wave and Parting the Waves from the corebook for inspiration. Note that the effect can't be quite a ward, because it must actively push the water away as the magus/magic item descends into the depths. I would go with something like the following (there's some wiggling room about Base level and modifiers):

Circling currents of protection, ReAq 25, R:Touch T:Ind, D:Conc
This spell animates a mass of water into a strong current whirling around the caster, similar to whirlpool, that keeps itself and other water away from him to a distance of a few paces, in a volume shaped as a wide cylinder in shallow waters, or as a dome in deeper ones. Strong swimmers can penetrate the current and enter the internal bubble only on a Str + Swim roll of 18+.
Base 4 a forceful but nonviolent effect, +2 magnitudes extremely unnatural (or perhaps Base 5 violent effect, +1 unnatural; note that most examples in the book "lump" together these into a simple Base 10), +1 follows the caster around, +2 Voice, +1 Conc.

This could be made into a device which maintains concentration by boosting the effect to level 30, which even an unexceptional and relatively junior specialist (say, Rego 10, Aquam 25, +2 Intelligence, +8 Magic Theory, +8 Shape&Material, +3 Aura, +4 Laboratory Specialization) could enchant as a lesser item with 1 use/day for 3 pawns of vis. For most uses 1 use/day would be enough; I would not really worry about someone attempting to dispel the effect any more than about someone attempting assassination by other, more "standard" means.

9

Another thing to consider is whether the stated effect is the desired result. The spell states it would allow unimpeded movement, but the actual effect only allows movement unimpeded by the displaced water. If you are walking on a seafloor in a bubble of air you still need to deal with whatever is on the seafloor such as mud, sand, silt, matted seaweed, etc.

While walking through mud is theoretically possible, it would be much more effective to ReCo your own movement or some other solution.

10

Well if I have to trudge through mud that's not that bad.

But with only a Rego Aquam how can you breathe?

The main (intended) effect was to create breathable air. The spells Break the Incoming Wave and Parting the Waves are good references but I'm not sure they can be used effectively deep underwater.

With that in mind I'm torn between Creo Auram with Rego Aquam requisites or the reverse.

11

Well, from a medieval mindset, if you displace the water what happens? You form a bubble of air. Vaccum does not exist in their mindset, "Empty" at the time meant "filled with air." (IMHO)

I would note that a target surrounded by a bubble of aire cannot swim or move easily in water. He will simply sink to the bottom, where he can walk, unless he has other means of movement (a mount or another effect).

12

I would tend to agree with ezze and now Arthur - this also appears to be the approach taken by Erik Tyrrell in LoH.

13

You take the air down from the surface with you, in a bubble of air trapped inside by the churning current.

14

I still don't have that book Tellus :wink:

I think I'll go the route of Rego Aquam with Creo Auram necessary requisites.
Maybe the Rego Aquam is sufficient to repel the water and create the impression of a bubble but I'll be more comfortable with the Creo Auram to truly create a bubble of breathable air that'll last for the long time of a ritual.

15

It might well be more practical to develop two separate spells one for your bubble and one to keep the air fresh. The way that the rules to invent a spell are constructed two lower level spells are typically easier to invent than one higher level. Also, I've always felt that spells that do too much aren't often a good thematic fit for the system.

16

Why "impression" of a bubble? You really are trapping air to bring down with you. And a "half bubble" with a radius of half a dozen won't go "stale" for a long time, several days with a magus and a custos.

17

You'd mentioned, and I hadn't noticed :blush:
My bad.

EDIT: spelling

18

I feel that if the spell is based on a CrAu, you are constantly creating air to push away the water and prevent it to submerge you.
It will be efficient, but it will create a column of air as you move underwater, since the air you are creating is constantly escaping to the surface - quite a bubble bath.

A Rego Auram with Creo requisit would allow to keep air around you (as you goes under water) and prevent it to get stale, without having huge bubbles floating towards the surface.

As with many case, you have several ways to achieve the same results: keeping the water away which is definitely a ReAq spell, and as said by Arthur, by default, you are surrounded by air. It won't refresh though, so after a while - depending on the volume and number of persons breathing it will get unconfortable and possibly you will suffocate (asphyxiation is a known phenomena, no ?).
Creating constantly air will of course prevent you for drowning (with the side effect I mentionned), as well as keeping air around you - which looks like the most discrete and durable solution.

19

Aaah it was so simple at first. Of course I suspected I did not see everything, that's why I asked for advice here.

I did not consider Rego Auram with Creo requisite.

20

Hi,

In a sense, the spell has 3 effects:

  1. It has either a ward against water or a PeAq effect or a very, very fancy MuAu effect (to create a sphere of air strong enough to repel an incredible amount of water (or other material?) while the interior remains normal air. Real air, it should be noted, does NOT repel water in this way. Even God created a 'firmament', which I suppose would work too, if one could figure out the proper Form for this, and in some sagas achieve a breakthrough.) A plain ReAq effect could work if the 'bubble' is created before entering the water, or in combination with a PeAq effect that created the initial bubble, or in combination with an effect that made the air neutrally buoyant in water, so that we don't have to worry about moving around masses of water. A continual PeAq effect is not desirable. Or, one could rule that if the mutated air is strong enough to keep water from rushing in, then nothing is needed to deal with the water, similar to creating a stone or fish in the water, and I think that's fair. At this point, no Aq effect is needed.

  2. It has a CrAu effect, to create air that does not exist.

Effect #2 is pretty straightforward.

  1. ReAu, for the bubble to move with the caster. I'd add a +1 for complexity if the caster wants to be able to move the sphere of air as he wills.

Wards in AM5 are... weird. I would even say buggy, since it forms an important exception to the general rule that increasing the amount of stuff a spell effects increases the spell's level. For example, if I wanted to push a herd of stampeding elephants, I would need +2 for Group and then a few more magnitudes to account for the mass of elephants I wanted to push. But if I wanted to keep a herd of elephants from trampling me, the basic ward is sufficient. This would be ideal for our purposes, since we would no longer need to account for how much water we wanted to affect! But wards do not work at range, except when cast as a circle. A circle might work for an immovable bubble, but I don't think that is wanted.

So, if I wanted to be able to cast this anywhere, I think we are looking at:

Cr(Mu,Re)Au
(+2 for requisites, +1 for extra Mu effect, +1 or more for fancy effect)
Au lets the size be Ind, since Au is generous.

Creates a self-refreshing ball of air (CrAu) around the caster that is neutrally buoyant (Mu1), that is strong enough to repel Aq (Mu2) but acts as normal air (not too thick to move in, be comfortable, breathe, etc. repel anything within, for fancy1), that moves with the caster (Re1) [and can be moved by the caster if he concentrates (fancy+1)]. Add more fancies for complexity, as you fancy; +1 to +3 would not be wrong. Breathing this air exclusively for too long can cause Warping, and it is a magical medium so it needs to Penetrate. (Yes, if you CrAu, the air needs to Penetrate! Woohoo !) The base level is the worst of Cr/Mu/Re.

Other ways to do this. Mu(Re)Aq(Au) with some added magnitudes for complexity works too. But you have to already be in the water.

(I'm assuming that magi will not suffocate on Creoed air or water Mutoed into air!)

Anyway,

Ken