OOC: characters and covenant discussions

Retired Play by Post Campaigns Ars Magica 5th Edition: Bad Apples
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The heavier stuff now:

Verditius Items of Quality
I like them. Its a process that you magically treat an item to make it ideal, non magical. They arent resisted and they can be enchanted. The vis spent is for the process not an enchantment. However:
a)pg 124 '...the empowered item of quality provides a bonus to the user's roll when it is used...'. Soak is not a roll, damage is not a roll. Just to be clear.
b) I am inclined to rule that because of the use of Verditius runes, if you want to further enchant the item, you can't use more Verditius runes (but can enchant it through normal procedure). Discuss?
c) All crafted items provide arcane connections. Invested devices are for years, non-magical ones are for weeks. Because of the process and runes, Items of qualities are for months. Sounds fair?

I will allow Graham to start with Items of Quality virtue , contrary to character guidelines. This is because it serves ST purposes. I like Hubris flaws. Hubris is a very, very dangerous thing to have in Greece....

Criamon
As a player, I too don't like how the Criamon are represented in the official book. As an ST, I do not have the inclination to throw out a quarter of a canon book, nor the time to replace it with something else. Moreover, as an ST Criamon as written give a lot of hooks I can use. I respect your opinion T Rex, but I am keeping them as are for this campaign. Its fine if you dont like them... play a mystic from a different house or tradition, or play a Gorgiastic. Are we ok with this?

Ok, lets parse this out.
Whats this about Tempestria not being modified?
Witches of Thessaly aren't infernal. In fact the hermetic part broke from Daughters of Erictho just for that. However, Summoning is described in Infernal, can be used to summon Demons, 'smells' unholy, and the witches keep contact with their non-Hermetic sisters and trade secrets (like cthonic magic), even if they say they don't. Summonings for other realms do exist, see Hermetic Sahirs for an example. What is the problem with this, please explain.
There is a misconception here: social outcasts arent rejected; unplayable characters will be rejected. The Binsagus example I gave was exactly that: a player dumping points on social to make a genius labrat. However that labrat is very difficult to take out in quests and engage in storylines. After missing the first couple of outings and interactions, the player might very likely get bored and complain that the ST doesn't pay attention to him (the ST though has to pay attention to the other 7 players too). I am fine with an anti-social character provided: a) she participates in quests/plots/storylines b)knows the risks of being antisocial c) is antisocial as a character, and that does not spill over in player interactions.

I agree its not solely the players job to make the character fit. Its not solely the STs. Which is why we are having this conversation. As I posted in the character creation thread: find a reason to join, then make the character. Don't try to shoe-horn an existing concept into this campaign.

Why would just out of Gauntlet join this 'dinky' covenant:
-[tab][/tab]Spring covenants means no seniority and more equal distribution of materials and vis. Joining an established covenant does much to curb the momentum of younger members.
-[tab][/tab]Aura of 5. For a new covenant thats a lot. This especially critical for researchers and crafters.
-[tab][/tab]Seclusion. So people need quiet, others just need to disappear for a while. Add to that the Ungoverned, means no Lord over their head.
-[tab][/tab]Steady vis supply. The Theban Tribunal has a lot of vis supplies (especially Creo/Vim). That apple Anastaj parades is a whole Rook of Mentem, and thats impressive.
-[tab][/tab]The Theban Tribunal has few disputes between members, and fewer raids between covenants. It's more stable than Iberia, Loch Legan or Stonehedge , and less oppressive than Transilvania, the Alps or the Rhine.

Those are some reasons. Ultimately though, its a player decision. We good?

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Sorry if that came out aggressive, it's just I can't come up with ideas for characters that would want to be there.

It doesn't if it's Magic aligned. You're forcing Infernal alignment. The other abilities are always Infernal, but Summoning can be aligned to other realms.

(ST EDIT) <_< Quote me the insert on page 115 RoP:I please

I stand corrected. Good thing no one can tell.

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Fun fact: Aura's are actually horrifyingly bad for doing actual experimentation. Each one adds an extra botch die which increases the chance of splattering your researcher in a lab explosion!

On the plus answers!

Cool!

Yeah, really I should be studying more and thus being more patient.

That sounds interesting...

(ST EDIT)Actually its quite terrifying, I expect people to go up in flames :smiley:

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A questions on Theban Bjornaer

I am reading through HoH:MC, and realise that there is a lot of new material in 5ed ... I need to choose a clan ...

I saw that there are five magi bjornaer in Thebes. Which clans are represented? Or at least which main traditions?

I do not want to play a magus from a tradition which is already well represented in the tribunal, so I'd rather know before I choose. TIA

I'll post the character draft in a bit ... I just need a few more details in place before it is complete enough.

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What was the original problem with Tempesteria?

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Is isn't much of a benefit in Theban tribunal. If anything the seniority gives guidance and has a library. Some have democratic governance and some more of a republic. But that is the Tribunal as a whole.

Pc made covenants usually are, it's also debatable if it's a good thing. Lower auras are better to avoid warping.

Feudalism didn't really work out in Greece. It means less in Theban tribunal where land rights and a merchant class exists. Regio exist all over. Seclusion is one thing, being far from everywhere is a bit different.

Vis is like candy that rains from the sky, it's Theban tribunal. Tokens are primary currency because it grows on trees, here quite literally.

Yes, but what does this Covent have to draw non-social outcasts?

My point of all this isn't to argue or debate or poo on the game. It looks very fascinating as a player. But the constant rebuttals as to why a character would be there... well I don't know, it's a good question why would they? I don't know is my point. Characters that want seclusion want seclusion for reasons, usually social. A social character is going to want people and commerce or art, a society at least in a days ride. I feel we've painted ourselves into a corner. I'm more interested in first solidifying concept and basic build before I invent the backstory and get excited to get shot down.

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a), b) and C) I agree on all three points.

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Potent magic is listed in the mysteries book under "Curious Common Magics" as a Hermetic Virtue. Does that mean it can be taken at character creation as a "standard" virtue or would it come under the campaign "maximum of 1 mystery virtue" ?

(ST EDIT)Can be taken at character creation as your 1 mystery virtue after consulting me. Bjornae is one mystery virtue already though

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IIRC lesser enchanted devices only last weeks. Items of quality should not last longer.

I know....which I am ruling they last months...because of the process and Verditius runes...hell, Rune Magic is AC permanently

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why not?

It's easy. You just ignore the stupid stuff, which is like all of it, and have Enegmatic Wisdom. Though you don't have to for one character, just give the character negative house rep. Let things grow organically. Cookie cutter characters are boring. This lack of customisation is similar to the Tempesteria, which I don't know why was a problem. Like the Rustic Magi, would he be forced to be from The Rhine? Like... can't he be a traveling tinker? I'm guessing not.

(ST EDIT) Seriously, where is this Tempestria thing coming from? Please explain. The Rustic magi...Most rusti are from Rhine. That does not mean you cant have one from somewhere else, its just uncommon. He can be a traveling tinker. I just need you to find a reason why he came to Theban Tribunal. I dont think I am asking too much am I? :S
On the Criamon thing...basically you are asking me to totally ignore canon...because you dont like it, yes?

I'm asking for a character to not be pigeonholed into being lame Psuedo-Vedic silliness.

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The maximum is for character creation and starting mysteries.

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I'm split between a Rustic Magi and a Guernicus Hoplite or modifying Aella.

Gorgiastic Rustic Magi?

(ST EDIT)Gorgiastic becomes Orbus I think? Its a Criamon created character that leaves, hence made as Criamon. You could make a Rustic with Enigmatic wisdom IF you give a good story (just dont go overboard)
Guernicus Hoplite is nice. Aella is nice too, we can work her out.

I'm too frustrated. If your anscestors were, then you are Gorgiastic otherwise you're wasting a Virtue point.

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Some ideas for why the character came to his covenant, despite not being anti-social:

A character can want seclusion, but still be able to function in society. A character that likes to spend half the year in the lab, five months in the library and a month vacationing. Obviously since this isn't Excel: Ars Magica Edition, things won't work out quite that well, but the character didn't know that going in!

Its also possible that a character doesn't have a social handicap, but is hiding or laying low for some reason. Maybe their parents were secretly powerful diabolic magi. So they fled across Mythic Europe.

Maybe the character is obviously plotting something shady or ill-advised, and no one else is going to accept them in Thebes. This doesn't have to be illegal.

They have a draw to Thebes, obviously don't understand the culture, and this is the only covenant that let them in.

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Darkwing's magus ideas

  1. A Tremere who is a native Romanian, apprenticed in Transylvania, and now as is traditional should leave the Transylvanian Tribunal and experience life elsewhere. His Tremere seniors have suggested it would be helpful if someone investigated this new covenant in Thebes, and after all the locals aren't too different from back home. They can't send anyone from the Theban Tribunal as they'd look like a spy?
    Pro - someone who is happy to live in a mountain village where they speak Vlach, has contacts to the wider hermetic world
    Con - will the Criamon just think "he's obviously a spy" or "Tremere are often the bad guy in Thebes" and reject him?

(ST EDIT)Nice idea. All Tremere are spies thats a given :stuck_out_tongue:. No the Criamon will not reject him, why should he? The Treme as a house created trouble 'bad then', individual Tremere aren't held responsible for that now. Its a good concept, you just need to flesh it out

  1. A Theban Guernicus who is a Terrae cultist and thinks Hedyosmos is boring and would like to see daylight.
    Pro - I get to a play a Guernicus without having the usual duties, and can introduce others in the covenant to the Theban way of politics.
    Con - I think the Flambeau wanted to specialise in Terram, maybe some others want to do Terram as well, and I don't want to overlap with others and wreck both our games.

(ST EDIT)Good of you to think of others. I think its kind that you would pass Terram so as not to conflict with another players shtick

  1. A Bjornaer whose heartbeast is full of symbolism. Maybe a serpent, so I can have a venomous form and eventually develop into being a winged serpent (Chimera inner heartbeast) or a peacock, for the symbolism of Hera and of beauty.
    Pro - I love Bjornaer, they would prefer a wilderness covenant, and I get to engage with symbolism
    Con - may clash with storyguide's chosen symbolism. Hopefully these forms won't clash with the proposed eagle Bjornaer.

(ST EDIT) This is very intriguing. I am quite hooked, keep talking

Darkwing's companion ideas

I'm kind of stuck. Anyone too mercantile or urbane wouldn't want to be in a backwater. No holy characters means an icon-maker or a wandering preacher are out, and no infernal means shady infernally-tainted types who want to hide are right out. We already have knightly or mercenary types proposed. I could play an ungifted hedge type, but would have to wait until all the magi are halfway-sorted to make sure I don't get made redundant.

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Need to change it out for something else then. Will do. Thanks

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I think I'm out. Game is supposed to be collaborative. Like I make a character to eat up the lack of lab and it's a forced ritual on top of a Virtue for garbage, then pigeonholed to be a none-Vedic Veda with incoherent philosophy. The Tempesteria I still don't have an answer why was vetoed.

(ST EDIT)I am sorry you feel that way. If it is not fun for you, you have to do what you have to do :S

I wouldn't know, you won't let me play.

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Parts of the Charter are up, in the covenant section. Expecting a lot of player flak for article 1 :stuck_out_tongue:
Please discuss at some point (we have 3 weeks) what you would like in the charter, what type of governance you would like to have etc

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Vetoed tradition no discussion

On what planet it's a major flaw. Curse of Venus etc. Major story flaws not allowed ok.

She has no Holy powers, no true faith, this is an xp sink to assist others if gasp the Storyteller runs a story. Or if after passing time, she quests on a pilgrimage after showing through play the character is decent. It can be removed easily.

And? Would you like to see the mathematical curve so you know how this works? She doesn't age then bam it hits hard. It has massive impact. I can switch it. But sardonic >_< is more than just rude.

I want build approval first, I still don't know why any Magi would come. If you know why they would insert that answer here.

She needs work. Ok. Suggests solutions. Crickets...

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I spent too much time writing a back story and it may now be too epic. :stuck_out_tongue:

On the plus side, it explains why Raven is all the way in Thebes. She's fleeing traumatic events!

But if you want it trimmed back, just tell me.

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No such thing. :smiley:

I look forward to reading it.