As a note on the vis income point for non-members - when it was discussed previously in the saga, there were two main suggestions:
Fray is open to helping. He will need help or vis to redo his longevity ritual when it fails. I could switch activities in the plan of 1230 if it was raised.
It depends on how we handle Inventive Genius. If we do count that, I think we're in spitting distance--possibly close enough that 2-3 seasons of study would do it, and/or minor improvements to the lab.
Viola's own total is In 6 + Vi 5 +4 Int + MT 8 = 23; Inventive Genius would push that to 26. Two seasons of study would push In and Vi each up by 2, making it 27 or 30.
The aura is 5.
The current lab bonus (including Constantine as a lab assistant) is +8; transforming the Greater Focus to a Greater Feature would up that to +10. (I don't have time tonight to pore over the other options, but most don't improve General Quality, and Viola isn't likely to install In or Vi bonuses.)
Fray gives a bonus of +3 Int + MT 8 = 11, or 14 with Inventive Genius.
So...without any study, lab improvements, or IG, we're looking at 47 with Fray's help. If we count IG, that goes to 53. That plus two seasons of study by Viola and eliminating the Greater Focus would make it 59--not quite enough, but I could probably wangle another point somewhere (e.g., through a third season of study).
I'll note, in response to Pralix, that, as a matter of flavor, I prefer for it to be typical for magi to open their own apprentices--it's a very intimate bond, and not something that should be left to a third party.
Scott
If you want it to be typical of the saga, all the rules in question (like inventive genius) should be counted in your favor to make this more likely. Nothing in the canon suggests that all those magi with supernatural virtues went to the Pralicians.
I would offer ym maga as another lab helper for a season (justified ic as her trying to brownnose her way into the covenant's favor), but a) she contributes little compared to fray and b) the number of lab helpers depends on the leadership ability (and Viola only has ledership 1 and the wrong specialisation).
An InVi total of 60 isn't trivial, but it's not that high either - it's just that Viola isn't particularly good at either Art.
However, she's not by a long shot a newly gauntleted maga, and apprentices aren't just for InVi specialists.
Scott
I think I have got the saolution!
What about the following houserule:
The opening total can be lowered by taking supernatural/hermetic flaws to compensate for virtues. Like the virtues, the flaws count normally towards the number of virtues and flaws prescribed by the rules.
I mean, all magi have hermetic flaws. This could be a source of those (there are more flaws than there are lab accidents, I feel)
Rechecked: mongol scouts could be around after 1230
The horde arrives in 1236
Have you got Apprentices? That has Rules for teaching Hermetic virtues, made easier by incorporating Hermetic flaws. Obviously there's natural (lack of) ability as well.
Edit: More generally, this is an IC problem that I'd like to see fixed using IC solutions, not by OOC changing the rules.
Edit 2: Although Inventive Genius is a separate issue, since that's a matter of clarification of something unclear rather than a change.
I entirely agree that we shouldn't change the rules to suit one maga, but I think this is as general problem: it affects more than a few Merinita apprentices, for example. That being said, I don't see an easy rules change that would make the problem go away, other than changing the target numbers, and I'd just like to get past this. Right now, Viola has to learn the Aegis spell, though she can certainly postpone mastering it. I guess she could also postpone the denouement of the Halia story, and study instead: getting rid of the Greater Focus will take two seasons, and give 2 extra points to the lab total, while studying two more seasons would be worth 4 points. That would put her in a position to open the arts at the beginning of Spring 1230 (and force her to cast Aegis twice without mastering it). That's all assuming the benefit from IG, of course.
I’ve hated the rules since first encountering them and while I really like the book overall; Apprentices did nothing to make these parts of the game better. AFAIK there is no story benefit to an Magus having to divert years of their life just to get a high InVi lab total. We often create specialists to play to themes and stories, this wastes years of game time.
Please Remove the rule totally. It sucks.
Make it like teaching the last part of Parma or a known initiation rite and let’s get past it. If I wasted the time I’d bet there are Magi in the books who are supposed Masters who also have poor InVi totals too.
Heaven help characters who are poor with lab work or have deficits in those arts (like mine, maybe others here).
...Huh. You can combine raising the refinement of a lab and removing flaws - I hadn't realised that.
I know you said you didn't want to Install Intellego or Vim bonuses, but Viola's fairly vis rich, so one possibility could be to purchase (or make) a magic item to boost the lab total? As people have commented, Viola's hardly the only person likely to be in this situation, so there's probably a market for them.
Something like:
Lens of the Ambitious Parens
InVi(Co) 55
1 use per day, 0 penetration
R: Touch D: Moon T: Vision
Peering through this clear glass lens enables the wielder to inspect the magic of a target, including the Gift and any other supernatural powers aligned to the magic realm. This is often of significant help in opening the Arts of children with supernatural abilities, granting a +6 bonus to the lab total for Opening the Arts. The magical sight is actually possessed by the target maga, and it only working through the lens is a cosmetic effect designed to help prevent accusations of scrying (although in practice most lenses do not have enough penetration to inspect the Gift of a gauntleted magus).
The level of the effect is high enough to cause 4 warping points in a season (1 for each of three activations, and 1 for being under a constant high power magical effect for a season) if the magic item is not designed for the maga wielding it. Enough magae accept this as a fair price that there is a minor second hand market in the lenses (few people needing them often). For those sufficiently determined to avoid warping to commission or build the lens for themselves, an alternative version with concentration duration and multiple uses per day is also popular. Some Merinita magae have acquired lenses which enable them to examine faerie supernatural powers instead of magical ones
(Base 10 (Detect the traces of Powerful Magic) + 1 Touch + 4 Vision + 3 Moon + 1 see into target's body.)
Yes, though not directly useful here--but magi setting up labs need all the help they can get. Setting up a good lab might not even be worth the effort, except for creating the high-level effects, but it does have a high kewlness factor.
You can shift the specializations any time you refine the lab, so a temporary specialization is entirely viable--but I don't think any of the current Virtues or Flaws could produce In or Vi specializations.
As for the magic item, I think 4 Warping points might be reasonable to the average magus...but you know how Viola feels about Warping--I can't imagine her accepting that.
Scott
I am really keen to participate in this campaign on a long term basis but what I have realised that what I hope to achieve is not going to be served by my Wishbone character. I have corresponded with MT Knife and he suggested I check my proposal below with the full group.
I would like to bring a different Flambau character in to the campaign after the 7 seasons advancement period, with approximately 20 years post gauntlet experience. He would be a Soldier in the cult of Mithras sent by the Legions leader Marcus Minor of Flambau to help with the Amazon problem. I would propose to have Wishbone to gather an arcane connection just outside the Aegis of the Hearth of the Base Camp and travel by mundane means to the Provencal Tribunal to the Domus Major of house Flambau, Castra Solis to seek aid, Wishbone would stay in Provencal and the new character would use Leap of Homecoming using the arcane connection to arrive in time for the restart after the 7 season advancement period (or when the story guide tells me to).
I have the new character designed so delay should be minimal if people are OK with the change?
Sorry to be a pain but I do want to play something I can commit to in the long term.
Thanks
John
It’s essentially not overly different from you stopping and another player joining at that point. Making the transition congruent in the storyline is important.
No issue for me.
I've no issue with you changing character if you want to.
What is it you're hoping to achieve?
I have not had the opportunity before to explore a combat capable mage who is dedicated to defending the order and can back up his overconfidence and slight arrogance. May be that turns out to be "Early death" but I think it will be fun to plan and see through to a conclusion one way or another.
For that, spell mastery is probably your friend (especially for a blasty-Flambeau).
Yes, that is how it is turning out as I finish up the design.
Just to confirm before I start formatting the advancement for the new character, am I right in assuming that once post apprenticeship advancement starts study bonus and book learner would count against the source qualities specified in the character creation section?