Seasonal Activities and Advancement

[Salutor]

I'm happy for them to cause warping.

[MTKnife]

@Salutor

I'm happy for them to cause warping.

Then I'll add that to the house rules, along with the reduced Upkeed for Magical Heating and Lighting.

Scott

[Salutor]

Gregorius will start putting feelers out for people willing to trade up to 3 pawns of the Form vis we currently have sources for in exchange for Mentem vis, with the possibility of a further trade in future years.

[ironboundtome]

@MTKnife

I would rather they cause Warping (that's the spirit of the rules, if not the letter), but if you and ironboundtome both want it the other way, I could do that. Otherwise, the Magical Lighting in this case will simply be a Magic Item--which, yes, will come out of Hidden Resource points.

Scott

Stick to RAW, and lets solve it another way. To solve I'll craft some magical lanterns if I can get some Mu, Te, or Ig vis.

[MTKnife]

@ironboundtome

@MTKnife

I would rather they cause Warping (that's the spirit of the rules, if not the letter), but if you and ironboundtome both want it the other way, I could do that. Otherwise, the Magical Lighting in this case will simply be a Magic Item--which, yes, will come out of Hidden Resource points.

Scott

Stick to RAW, and lets solve it another way. To solve I'll craft some magical lanterns if I can get some Mu, Te, or Ig vis.

Well, part of the proglem is figuring out what the RAW are. We're talking about fairly simple Lesser Enchanted Devices, though, one of which will already be present in the lab Fray moves into. Viola's planning to put one in her lab, too--and she has to enchant a whole regio level with Magical Heating, or freeze in her own living quarters.

Scott

[MTKnife]

@Salutor

Gregorius will start putting feelers out for people willing to trade up to 3 pawns of the Form vis we currently have sources for in exchange for Mentem vis, with the possibility of a further trade in future years.

One catch there: Tasia's going to want the Terram vis.

Scott

[Salutor]

Okay - whatever vis sources we have that other people aren't claiming, then (does Viola want the Imaginem? Because if so that only leaves the Animal, which only produces one pawn a year, so he'll have to reduce what he's able to trade).

[MTKnife]

I don't think she's going to use the Imaginem right away, no, if you want to trade that.

Scott

[ironboundtome]

I'm happy to not have the Superior Lighting virtue and was ok to craft an item later rather than spend build points where they were not needed. I'll accept it happily, as it's not an issue for me as a player. Likewise the Warping question for me comes back to the story impact and story seeds it might have. Having an arbitrary +1 or -1 isn't worth much to me compared to the "what and why"; so we can apply Lab Warping as strongly or passively as you like.

For Fray I'm thinking of this advancement:

Autumn 1227:

• Arrive and refine the Lab. I read previously that a lab does not need to be claimed as such if it as no refinement in place (because refine 0 does not require seasons), so I can get started straight away. I'd like to roll the chance of adding the happenstance virtues for well organised and such too.

Cov p110; to do that is MaTh vs 4 (Refinement target: 1 +3), which Fray has. Then rolling a stress Int + MaTh vs 12 to get Highly Organized, and vs 15 to detect a hidden flaw. I don't have a "tiny" style personality trait for the roll to gain Tidy.

Roll: 1d10=1, then a 1d10=3; so I get MaTh 8, +3 Int, +6 from the roll = 17. This is enough for the Highly Organised, and also enough to discover if it has a hidden flaw.

• Correspondence with Master on MaTh (1xp)

Winter 1228:

• Invent a version of the MuTe/Ig effect to make a stone glow. Perhaps another effect it LT is high enough for another low effect.
• "Somewhere, Under the Barrows" story - Fray will advance in Magical Lore (2 xp), MaTh (2xp), and Faerie Lore (3xp).
• Correspondence with Master on MaTh (1xp)

[MTKnife]

@ironboundtome

I'm happy to not have the Superior Lighting virtue and was ok to craft an item later rather than spend build points where they were not needed. I'll accept it happily, as it's not an issue for me as a player. Likewise the Warping question for me comes back to the story impact and story seeds it might have. Having an arbitrary +1 or -1 isn't worth much to me compared to the "what and why"; so we can apply Lab Warping as strongly or passively as you like.

Games-mechanics-wise, a sane magus probably doesn't want a Warping number over 1--odd Warping results (side effects) can be OK, even beneficial, but even ones (modified effects) tend to be something you'd want to avoid. Even Viola, who's a little crazy, doesn't like her Warping to be over 3.

Nonethless, if you don't want the Magical Lighting, maybe I can give you a Minor Virtue instead.

For Fray I'm thinking of this advancement:

Autumn 1227:

• Arrive and refine the Lab. I read previously that a lab does not need to be claimed as such if it as no refinement in place (because refine 0 does not require seasons), so I can get started straight away. I'd like to roll the chance of adding the happenstance virtues for well organised and such too.

Cov p110; to do that is MaTh vs 4 (Refinement target: 1 +3), which Fray has. Then rolling a stress Int + MaTh vs 12 to get Highly Organized, and vs 15 to detect a hidden flaw. I don't have a "tiny" style personality trait for the roll to gain Tidy.

Roll: 1d10=1, then a 1d10=3; so I get MaTh 8, +3 Int, +6 from the roll = 17. This is enough for the Highly Organised, and also enough to discover if it has a hidden flaw.

I'm going to say the lab had a positive Refinement (which I'll determine tomorrow, probably), but that doesn't change the foregoing. Do be aware though that having a lab assistant, familiar, or (possibly) apprentice will screw up Highly Organized, unless the assistant in question has Int as high as Fray's.

Oh yeah, and piece of advice: if you want to be lab rat, bind a familiar as soon as you can.

• Correspondence with Master on MaTh (1xp)

Winter 1228:

• Invent a version of the MuTe/Ig effect to make a stone glow. Perhaps another effect it LT is high enough for another low effect.

That would normally be a CrIg effect. I suppose you could transform stone into something that glows, but I don't think that would need the Ig requisite. Let's call that Base 4 (highly unnatural change to dirt), +1 for stone, so a 5--in other words, a magnitude higher than the simple CrIg effect (light as bright as a cloudly day).

• "Somewhere, Under the Barrows" story - Fray will advance in Magical Lore (2 xp), MaTh (2xp), and Faerie Lore (3xp).
• Correspondence with Master on MaTh (1xp)

OK.

Scott

[MTKnife]

@ironboundtome

Winter 1228:

• Invent a version of the MuTe/Ig effect to make a stone glow. Perhaps another effect it LT is high enough for another low effect.
• "Somewhere, Under the Barrows" story - Fray will advance in Magical Lore (2 xp), MaTh (2xp), and Faerie Lore (3xp).
• Correspondence with Master on MaTh (1xp)

BTW, is this a formulaic to cast in the lab? I'm afraid I don't understand: you should be able to spont something pretty easily.

Scott

[ironboundtome]

@ironboundtome

Winter 1228:

• Invent a version of the MuTe/Ig effect to make a stone glow. Perhaps another effect it LT is high enough for another low effect.

It should make more sense when I spec it out. I'm planning to create a spell similar to the one used to make the room glow, but instead cast on a rock with a longer duration. They can then be handed around to covenfolk as portable lights. It will also give me a bonus to create it as a fixed item when I create a similar version for either my lab, or for the whole covenant. I know I can spont it easily, but I don't like risking burning fatigue.

I've added the Lab, the advancement, and updated in green on the Magi sheet. Just thought I'd post the spell effect here to get opinion/approval too.

Conjure the Orb of Sunshine ...
Glowing Rocks - a spell used to make portable glowing lights.

MuTe/Ig, as base 3 unnatural glowing which affect up to 10 cubic paces of dirt, mud, sand, or 1 cubic pace of stone or glass. glow very brightly +1, affect stone/glass +1, R:Touch +1, D: Sun +2, T: Ind +0. Target level 20.

LT 43 = Mu 21, Te/Ig 1, Int 3, Aura 5, Inventive 3, MaTh in Muto 9, lab Spec Mu Te/Ig 2. One season of work.

note: I know it's not quiet a permanent light spell, but as Fray has the Flexible Formulaic magic, I intend to make it extended to Moon when cast. That will be handy in the non-lab areas.

[MTKnife]

@ironboundtome

It should make more sense when I spec it out. I'm planning to create a spell similar to the one used to make the room glow, but instead cast on a rock with a longer duration. They can then be handed around to covenfolk as portable lights. It will also give me a bonus to create it as a fixed item when I create a similar version for either my lab, or for the whole covenant.

I know I can spont it easily, but I don't like risking burning fatigue.

OK, that makes sense.

Scott

[MTKnife]

@Salutor

Okay - whatever vis sources we have that other people aren't claiming, then (does Viola want the Imaginem? Because if so that only leaves the Animal, which only produces one pawn a year, so he'll have to reduce what he's able to trade).

OK, let's distribute the vis for the first two years. The income for each year is 8 pawns, which means we have 8 to distribute--since there are three member magi, we can round off to 9 and distribute 3 each. Since 7 pawns of income are from Techniques, I suppose there's nothing wrong with taking two pawns each of those. How does this sound?

Gregorius: 2 Rego, 1 Imaginem
Viola: 1 Rego, 2 Animal
Tasia: 1 Rego, 2 Terram

Scott

[MTKnife]

Here are revised advancement logs for Viola and Constantine. I still need to do the cats and Theodoric, but they shouldn't be hard.

Viola

1226

Winter: Initiates Calliope into Potent Spontaneous Magic, then studies again from the Parma Magica summa (Study: +14=92 [5]).
Spring: Explores the faerie regio in the temple to Poseidon as a possible lab site. Spends the rest of the season investigating the regio, both to learn more about the curse and its effects, and to discover how to harvest the Perdo vis source in the upper level. Adv.: Faerie Lore, +5=56 (5).
Summer: Finishes setting up the lab, completing the work Constantine began in the Spring. Exp.: Magic Theory, +2=198 (8).
Autumn: Sits amidst the petrified men in her lab and studies Muto from Transformation (+20=80 [12]).

Correspondence with Calliope: Faerie Magic, +1=23 (2)
Corrrespondence with Salignus: Faerie Magic, +1=24 (2)
Corrrespondence with Theodolphus: Magic Theory, +1=199 (8)
Corrrespondence with Theoros: Magic Theory, +1=200 (8)

Vis Income: 1p Re from the covenant, 2p Mu from the faerie wine casks.

1227

Winter: Sits near various fountains within the covenant while studying Rego from Discipline and Restraint (+31=51 [9]). Tries repeatedly not to giggle at the title.
Spring: Has the covenfolk plant a garden under the open roof in her living quarters, and uses that location to study Creo from Portia’s Principia Fabricata (+20=39 [8]).
Summer: Refines her lab, raising its Refinement to +1. Exp.: Magic Theory, +2=202 (8)
Autumn: Journeys to Aegea covenant with Calliope, seeking information that would help her lift the curse in the regio. Adv.: Order of Hermes Lore, +5=10 (1); Faerie Lore, +2=58 (4).

Correspondence with Calliope: Faerie Lore, +1=59 (2)
Corrrespondence with Salignus: Faerie Lore, +1=60 (2)
Corrrespondence with Theodolphus: Magic Theory, +1=203 (8)
Corrrespondence with Theoros: Magic Theory, +1=204 (8)

Vis Income: 2p An from the covenant, 2p Mu from the faerie wine casks.

Constantine

1226

Winter: Flits about while Viola studies.
Spring: Accompanies Viola in exploring the temple regio, then begins setting up her lab there.
Summer: While Viola finishes setting up the lab, learns about magic from her (Train.: Magic Theory, +11=119 [6]).
Autumn: Flits about while Viola studies.

1227

Winter and Spring: Flits about while Viola studies.
Summer: While Viola refines the lab, learns about magic from her (Train.: Magic Theory, +11=130 [6]).
Autumn: Accompanies Viola on her trip to Aegea.

Scott

[MTKnife]

OK, I see Salutor has already done an advancement log for Theodoric, so I need merely to copy it over. However, it looks like he's got three seasons of learning in 1227, when, as a grog, he should have only two.

@Salutor

List revised for Aison's Poor Learner flaw, Miklos teaching Latin (to Simon, Niketas and a Leper grog), aging rolls for Petrus and a few other minor amendments.

Theodoric
Winter 1226: Practice Hunt. 4xp -> 3 (4)
Spring 1226: Adventure. Tanais Covenant Lore 5xp -> 1 (10)
Summer 1226: Teaching Latin. 2xp Teaching -> 1 (2)
Autumn 1226: Teaching Latin. 2xp Teaching -> 1 (4)
Winter 1227: Practice Teaching 4xp -> 1 (8)
Spring 1227: Practice Single Weapon 4xp -> 5 (4)
Summer 1227: Teaching Don Delta Lore to Gregorius. Source quality 10. 2xp teaching -> 2 (0)
Autumn 1227: Practice Single Weapon 4xp -> 5 (8)

Also, apparently I missed this question two and a half years ago....

Stamina roll to resist Phthisis: Ease factor 9. Roll = 5, failed. (invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/3275916/)
Contracts Phthisis. I'm assuming someone (Viola? is probably the most capable, with her LLSM - MTKnife, can you confirm if she will?) will cast something to give him a bonus to recovery rolls which should mean he recovers over the Spring season barring a botch.

Sure. What does she need to do here?

Scott

[Cuchulainshound]

@MTKnife

... it looks like he's got three seasons of learning in 1227, when, as a grog, he should have only two.

@Salutor

Theodoric
Winter 1226: Practice Hunt. 4xp -> 3 (4)
Spring 1226: Adventure. Tanais Covenant Lore 5xp -> 1 (10)
Summer 1226: Teaching Latin. 2xp Teaching -> 1 (2)
Autumn 1226: Teaching Latin. 2xp Teaching -> 1 (4)
Winter 1227: Practice Teaching 4xp -> 1 (8)
Spring 1227: Practice Single Weapon 4xp -> 5 (4)
Summer 1227: Teaching Don Delta Lore to Gregorius. Source quality 10. 2xp teaching -> 2 (0)
Autumn 1227: Practice Single Weapon 4xp -> 5 (8)

Well, it's not that a grog can only learn 2 seasons/year, its' that they only have the yearly equivalent of "2 seasons free" to "undertake study" of something approp to their job that is more than Exposure or Practice, all things equal. (As per "Assigning Seasons", p 163. Let's face it, grogs don't have a "6 months on, 6 months off" contract, so it has to be "the equivalent".)

Looks like that didn't happen so much in '26

• one season practicing something (presumably also while working for the covenant, hunting to feed them)
• one season a'venturing (presumably for the covenant)
• 2 seasons Teaching

= 1 free seasons "learning" anything, the Hunting practice (unless that's not counted, then it's zero seasons).

I'd say just call it a wash, rather than go back and try to rearrange it. Or, give him his 1-2 seasons from '26, and drop 1 from '27, and he'll be no worse (and possible better) than he is now.

(Unless I'm missing some Saga houserule or diff interpretation of that section?)

@MTKnife

Also, apparently I missed this question two and a half years ago....

Stamina roll to resist Phthisis: Ease factor 9. Roll = 5, failed. (invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/3275916/)
Contracts Phthisis. I'm assuming someone (Viola? is probably the most capable, with her LLSM - MTKnife, can you confirm if she will?) will cast something to give him a bonus to recovery rolls which should mean he recovers over the Spring season barring a botch.

Sure. What does she need to do here?

HEAL THEODORIC! Oh, gawds - not phthisis! the burning, the itching, the social stigma! ...arrrrrghggghghghhhh....

(Again, esp if Viola has some large +X Recovery spells, just handwave it - altho' he may gain Warping points. Better that than TB.)

[MTKnife]

@Cuchulainshound

Well, it's not that a grog can only learn 2 seasons/year, its' that they only have the yearly equivalent of "2 seasons free" to "undertake study" of something approp to their job that is more than Exposure or Practice, all things equal. (As per "Assigning Seasons", p 163. Let's face it, grogs don't have a "6 months on, 6 months off" contract, so it has to be "the equivalent".)

For two seasons a year (abstracted or otherwise) he gets only Exposure--that's the rule on ArM pg. 163. Practice means devoting the entire season to nothing but practice, as opposed to doing useful work. I'll adjust it before posting the updated log, unless Salutor pipes up with a specific reason why we did it this way in the first place.

Scott

[Cuchulainshound]

@MTKnife

For two seasons a year (abstracted or otherwise) he gets only Exposure--that's the rule on ArM pg. 163.

Hmmm - that's not how I read those 2 sentences. I see that section as explaining that those seasons 2 only generate Exposure UNLESS the character can "undertake study that he could do in and between his job" - so Practice could - if it paralleled his "job" that season - fall under that umbrella quite easily.

As for Practice itself, the specific example on p 164 "Third" clearly allows Practice while "being forced to help" at a job, altho' the source value for "Hunting by yourself" would be the default 4, not the 5 of the Third example, since there is no "feedback" as in that example.

Now, the obvious question is "So what then is the diff between default Exposure and Practice? Why wouldn't every tradesman "Practice" all season long, all year long?!" - the answer imo is found in the 2nd sentence under Practice, that "This is a full time activity". That is, rather than focusing on earning a living and maximizing production (however that is measured), the character is focusing on learning, so the end-product is both noticeably less and by definition insufficient to earn a living (but there is still "some").

As in the example of "someone forced to help on a ship", the work is not expected to be as much as a full-time crewman, but it is "help". So that "season of practicing hunting" would not produce the same as a "season of hunting" - but it could be good enough to slide, especially if no one were keeping close tabs. So it would be up to the Covenant IC, whether (according to the end-product/etc.) they felt Theo was "hunting" or "must be doing something else with his time out there" (i.e. practicing hunting, and whether they noticed this mid-season or not until season's end, and whether they cared to take any disciplinary action to abort the Practice.

But either way - they're grogs, so whatever works.

[MTKnife]

@Cuchulainshound

@MTKnife

For two seasons a year (abstracted or otherwise) he gets only Exposure--that's the rule on ArM pg. 163.

Hmmm - that's not how I read those 2 sentences. I see that section as explaining that those seasons 2 only generate Exposure UNLESS the character can "undertake study that he could do in and between his job" - so Practice could - if that were his "job" that season - fall under that umbrella quite easily.

I have never encountered that interpretation, and I'm not even sure how you reached it, but we're going to play with the standard interpretation--which, I'm pretty sure, was the author's intent in any case.

Scott