Table talk: OOC

Max,
Should my magus be fresh out of gauntlet or more experienced?

To everyone:
I have a Guernicus Quaesitor in the works if you think he would fit the saga better than Milo the dwarf Verditius. I'd be happy to play either one.

I gave the other magi up to five years after gauntlet, I think. Other please object if necessary. Do as many years (within limits) as you feel is necessary. Also include who your magus knows Justus Felix.

I deleted this message ...it was a stupid question that I answered myself. :blush:

What is the current year in the game?

I have no problem with Tytalus magi on principle – in fact, I’d be interested to see one played well. I think they have a lot of potential that I personally have never seen realized. The problem is often that in-character motivations are used as an excuse for the player’s being an a-hole, or the player plays the character as an a-hole because they think that’s what the Tytalus do. If you think you can play nice with the group both OOC and IC, and still play a Tytalus (which you seem to), I’d be happy to have you.

Looks great to me. Since you asked for comments, the only thing I’d say is that your virtues are very lab focused. This is just fine, but Fifth Edition really gives you a lot of freedom to spread your magus around a few different specializations and still be pretty good at all of them. If what you want is a lab master, go for it, but I’d say you could easily switch out a couple of those virtues for something else that you like the flavor of and not suffer in the lab at all.

The Quasitor woudl probably be more complicated as many of the plots are fairly legalistic at the moment which may be disturbed by a PC Quaditor on the other hand he would have a lot to do. I don't mind go with the one you prefer.
The verditious looks fine but will be a bit crippled outside the lab. Gild trained may be more appropriate than Skilled parens gives about the same xp but ties you into the politics of the Tribunal (if you don't have guradians of the forest ignore that suggestion)

Thanks for the advice guys.

I expected that the Verditius should be geared toward lab work so that he could create plenty of items to help him in the field. But I'm going to take your advice and take a second look at changing some of his virtues.

After reading about the problems with the Novgorod covenants I thought a Quaesitor in Ad Fons might help. Maybe a Guernicus Advocate would be better. One who is skilled enough with intrigue and hermetic law to defend the covenant at tribunal?

I'm having a hard time deciding.

Well I'll get back to work fleshing out the characters so a decision can be made.

Two definite qualified approvals - good enough!

Hey, I go to the trouble of creating a separate character and logging in as them - how much of a jerkwad can I be? :wink:

If he becomes a real pain, I hereby officially give permission for him to get slagged in a wiz's war - no hard feelings. He's Tytalus - he embodies Darwinism in action, even if that award comes with a large "P" on it. 8)

Bruce -
If you've played before, then you know what crippling your spontaneous magic will do - if that's good by you, it's good by me. But I've seen too many Verdi's whose response to most surprise situations is "If I had a season in the lab, I'd have just the thing!" For my money, since V's are no longer forced to cripple Spont' magic, I'd lean away from that stereotype, at least to some extent.

Given that preference, I'd suggest having some virtue that helps him out of the lab - unless that is your complete and sole focus with this character.

A Quasitor in the group does limit the "wink-wink-nudge-nudge" options, unless he is particularly inept or otherwise occupied at the time. It is handy to have an authority to answer questions (such as "is it appropriate to kill this witch, or do we have to turn her over to the authorities?"), but the drawbacks can be burdensome. (As a Tyt, I'd welcome the additional challenge, but I think the SG has given you your answer.)

No Quasitor but perhaps a Guernicus that is not a Q. In close proximity to Novgorod laws dosn't always apply and I prefere the opportunity for "wink-wink-nudge-nudge" options.

That makes the choice easy :laughing:

I thought a Guernicus Advocate (Houses of Hermes True Lineages) might work since they are only legal advisors and tribunal lawyers. But in hind sight any member of house Guernicus might be compelled to report violation of the code.

So a Verditius it is. I'm reworking his flaws and virtues based on everyone's feedback and will post the results soon.

Thanks again for the advice guys.

Verditius will probably work better, all in all.

But on that topic, I can see a Guern who is less "by the book" and more about expediency and "good intentions" - one who lives by rules like "No harm, no foul" and "What they don't know can't hurt them" and "Don't ask questions that you really don't want to know the answer to..." 8)

It's mentioned that members from each house can become Quaesitores... I wonder what one from Tytalus would be like?... :unamused:

No problem with a tytalus. In fact, I like their house pretty interesting, although, as said before, a jerk can screw it all. But I have no fear here. Do it! :smiley:

Yes, I'm rather lost with you and the various changes you made T-T
But I guess this is ok :smiley:

Did I miss something?

At very first sight, your characteristics amount to 2 points, not 7, and I see no flaw reducing them... Thus, they should be higher, like Strength -1 instead of -3.

Here is Milo Ferox with new flaws and virtues. I cut back to 7 points worth. I was thinking of making him 5 years out of Gauntlet. I wanted to start with an enchanted item so I need the lab time. I could also just take the masterpiece virtue.

Milo Ferox, Journeyman follower of Verditius

Birth Name: Klaus Habermehl
Race/Nationality: Caucasian/German
Place of Origin: Oldenburg, Germany
Religion: Roman Catholic
Title/Profession: Journeyman
Confidence:1(3)
Current Year:1220(5 A.G.?)
Year of Guantlet:1215
Year Born:1190
Age:30
Gender:Male
Size:-2
Height:3.5ft
Weight:80 lbs
Hair:Copper
Eyes:Blue
Handedness:Right

Decrepitude:0
Warping:0(0)

Intelligence:+3
Perception:0
Strength:-3
Stamina:+1
Presence:0
Communication:0
Dexterity:+1
Quickness:0

Personality Traits:
Disciplined +2
Kind +1
Patient -2

Virtues:
*The Gift
*Hermetic Magus
*Verditius Magic
Clear Thinker
Puissant Parma Magica
Skilled Parens
Inventive Genius
Secondary Insight

Flaws:
Dwarf
Oversensitive (Disrespect)
Ability Block (Martial)
Deleterious Circumstances (Touching Gold)
Mentor

Abilities:(xp)score
Artes Liberales*(geometry)=(5)1
Awareness (Flaws in materials)=(30)3
Concentration(lab work)=(15)2
Craft: Woodworking(Furniture)=(30)3
Craft: Bowyer(Crossbows)=(15)2
Leadership (motivation) =(30)3
Low German (Saxon)= (0)5
Latin(Hermetic Usage)=(50)4
Magic Theory*(enchanting items)=(75)5
Parma Magica*(Mentem)=(5)1+2
Stealth(hiding)=(15)2

House:Verditius
Covenant:Ad Fons
Sigil:Scent of cedar
Domus Magna:Verdi
Primus:Stouritus
Parens:
Covenant of Apprenticeship: Fengheld

CREO:(15)5
INTELLEGO:(15)5
MUTO:(15)5
PERDO:(15)5
REGO:(15)5

ANIMAL:0
AQUAM:(15)5
AURAM:0
CORPUS:0
HERBAM:(45)9+3
IGNEM:0
IMAGINEM:0
MENTEM:0
TERRAM:(15)5
VIM:0

Enchanted Devices:

Grimoire:

Perdo Aquam
-Parching Wind 20

Rego Aquam
-Break the Oncoming Wave 10

Creo Herbam
-Trap of the Entwining Vines 15
-Wall of Thorns 20

Intellego Herbam
-Shriek of the Impending Shafts 15

Muto Herbam
-Piercing Shaft of Wood 10
-Thaumaturgical Transformation of Plant to Iron 20

Rego Herbam
-Ward Against Faeries of the Woods 5
-Dance of the Staves 5

Muto Terram
-Edge of the Razor 20

Rego Terram
-The unseen Porter 10 :slight_smile:

That's a 5 year character? Seems a bit light... hrmmm, not going to crunch the math, but seems that way at first glance.

As Ardath pointed out, this math is short. These should have an absolute sum of +7 - and you have only +2.

+3 -3 +1 +1 = +2. Add 5 pts.

Vitues:
Only +7? Meh... I like big, dramatic plus's and minus's, but that's personal taste.

"Deleterious circumstances: Touching Gold"

Hrmmm... up the SG, natch, but this is something less than "uncommon". If he isn't wearing a gold ring, it's at best an "extremely rare" circumstance. Perhaps "carrying gold on his person", or "near gold" or "within sight of gold"... gold itself is rare enough in ME, so "touching" it seems a bit much, imo. I mean, he drops the coin/cross/whatever that he's holding, and casts the spell - done deal.

Abilities:
Thin but adequate - myself, I like more abilities to fall back on, but that's not to everyone's taste.

Arts:
A "5" in each Technique is the road to whitebread city, mediocre spells across the board. Unless his Parens was preparing your Character to take an apprentice asap (an odd choice, but not completely improbable), it's not a strong way to go. If you have no pressing interest in Perdo (as in, no spells to learn!), don't bother with it. Bump those Arts that your mage is interested in* - better lab totals mean stronger or more spells, better casting totals when you do need them, better Sponts - more flavour all in all.

(* From what I see, Herbem, and possibly Muto, to make his combat spells more reliable. Muto 6 adds to three combat-ish spells, and I think he can make Herbem 10, which would give +2 in that category of resistance.)

Your Character's higher-level Rego spells are not "combat critical" spells - that is, they are not something that your character is likely to need to cast repeatedly and unquestionably; for the most part, he takes his time, casts them once, maybe waits and tries again, all good. And they're only Level 10 (or less), so Rego might get bumped down a bit without fear for the Casting Total, and, again, those points funneled into something more "casting critical", some Art that feeds those do-or-die, ohgawdzhereitcomesnotmenotintheface, cast it again-and-again-and-again sort of spells.

Or not - but that's my 2 sheckles worth, if worth that.

I haven't added the 5 years worth of experience yet, working on it now.

Characteristics are not short, Milo is, he's a dwarf.
7 points spent as follows...I followed the rules on page 18 and 30.
Int+3(cost 6)
Strength -2(gain 3)-1 for dwarfism=-3
Stamina +2(cost 3) -1 for dwarfism=+1
Dexterity +1 (cost 1)

Total cost =7

Good point on the gold. I'll modify it.
I realized my mistake with the arts when I started picking spells.

Thanks for helping a newbie out.

:smiley:

Welcome, Furaxis and Bruce!

Character is still in the works - stand by.

Phew! Good to know my eye is not that far off!

Bah! Of course he is. Details, always in the details... :blush:

The balance of Spell/Art selection in Ars is one of the toughest parts of CharGen, and potentially one of the more subtle and therefore challenging (and most open to individual preference!) of any CharGen process that I know of.

I usually make a grid, with the 5 (or fewer) Techniques down the side, my chosen Arts across the top, and numbers representing the Levels of the Spells I want where they intersect. Then it's a matter of making the T+F+Int+etc add up to that amount, to get that spell - and the casting total beyond that. It's also a graphic that helps me spot spells/effects that are in common. Or that are "rogue", such as your one lone Intellego spell - those need to be reevaluated or put on the chopping block. (Could a non-Intellego spell achieve an equally effective defense?) And if several/many spells share a single favorite Technique or Form, that's where your points are best invested, and then see if other of your effects can be spun from there.

If you can think of some "equivalent" effects that are all powered by two of the three Forms, create some acceptable alternative spells for those and then concentrate all/more of your points on just those Arts, even better (esp when it's Lab time!).

(You're probably way ahead of me on most of this, I just like to spell it out, make it concrete.)

There is no one "right" or "best" approach or strategy to building a character. And I'm not talking about power-gaming and min-maxing, but just how to grok it all at once and come out with something enjoyable for you. But, imo, there are some mistakes to avoid, and a couple of tactics to try - here's a link to what I once posted on that subject, for your perusal. Adopt, adapt, consider or ignore, as you please.

Here's the big rework of Milo. I'm still designing some lesser enchanted items he built in his 5th year. I'll have them done by this weekend.

As always comments are welcome.

Milo Ferox, Journeyman follower of Verditius

Birth Name: Klaus Habermehl
Race/Nationality: Caucasian/German
Place of Origin: Oldenburg, Germany
Religion: Roman Catholic
Title/Profession: Journeyman
Confidence:1(3)
Current Year:1220(5 A.G.)
Year of Guantlet:1215
Year Born:1190
Age:30
Gender:Male
Size:-2
Height:3.5ft
Weight:80 lbs
Hair:Copper
Eyes:Blue
Handedness:Right

Decrepitude:0
Warping:0(0)

Intelligence:+3
Perception:0
Strength:-3
Stamina:+1
Presence:0
Communication:0
Dexterity:+1
Quickness:0

Personality Traits:
Disciplined +2
Kind +1
Patient -2

Virtues:
*The Gift
*Hermetic Magus
*Verditius Magic
Puissant Parma Magica
Puissant Muto
Skilled Parens
Inventive Genius
Secondary Insight

Flaws:
Dwarf
Oversensitive (Abuse of power)
Ability Block (Martial)
Deleterious Circumstances (in complete darkness)
Poor Memory (Names)


Abilities:(xp)score

Artes Liberales*(geometry)=(5)1
Awareness (Flaws in materials)=(30)3
Code of Hermes*(mundane relations)=(5)1
Concentration(lab work)=(15)2
Craft: Woodworking(Musical Instruments)=(30)3
Craft: Weaving(Linen)=(30)3
Finesse(Herbam)=(5)1
Leadership (motivation) =(5)1
Low German (Saxon)= (0)5
Latin(Hermetic Usage)=(50)4
Lore:Fengheld Covenant (Personalities)=(5)1
Magic Theory*(enchanting items)=(75)5
Music (play the rebec)=(5)1
Parma Magica*(Mentem)=(5)1+2
Penetration(Perdo)=(5)1
Philosophiae* (Ritual Magic)=(15)2
Stealth(hiding)=(15)2


Soak:+1

Wounds:
Light 1-3 (-1)
Medium 4-6 (-3)
Heavy 7-9 (-5)
Incapacitated 10-12
Dead 13+

Fatigue Levels:
Fresh
Winded (0/2min)
Weary (-1/10min)
Tired (-3/30min)
Dazed (-5/1hr)
Unconscious (na/3hr)


House:Verditius
Covenant:Ad Fons
Sigil:Scent of Pine Needles
Domus Magna:Verdi
Primus:Stouritus
Parens:
Covenant of Apprenticeship: Fengheld

CREO:(66)11
INTELLEGO:0
MUTO:(56)10+3
PERDO:0
REGO:(78)12

ANIMAL:0
AQUAM:0
AURAM:0
CORPUS:0
HERBAM:(26)6
IGNEM:0
IMAGINEM:0
MENTEM:(26)6
TERRAM:(23)6
VIM:(11)4

Lab Results and Notes:

Year 1 AG...
Finese 0>1(5)
Penetration 0>1(5)
Code of Hermes 0>1(5)
Philosophiae 0>2(15)

Year 2 AG...
Study Creo 9>10(10)
Study Muto 5>7(20)
Secondary Insight Bonus 4xp added to Te,Me,He,Vi

Year 3 AG...
Study Rego 10>12(23)
Study Terram 3>5(7)
Secondary Insight Bonus 3xp added to Te,Me,He,Vi
Secondary Insight Bonus 1xp added to Cr,Mu

Year 4 AG
Study Creo 10>11(10)
Study Muto 8>10(20)
Secondary Insight Bonus 4xp added to Te,Me,He,Vi

Year 5 AG
Created Milo's Wonderous Wooden Bridge
(Other items being designed.)


Raw Vis:

Longevity Ritual:

Enchanted Devices:
Milo's Wonderous Wooden Bridge: This palm sized model of a bridge when placed on the ground and commanded can cast Bridge of Wood(CrHe) up to 3 times a day.


Grimoire:

Trap of the Entwining Vines 15(CrHe)
Wall of Thorns 20(CrHe)
Piercing Shaft of Wood 10(MuHe)
Dance of the Staves 5(ReHe)
Tangle of Wood and Thorns 15(ReHe)

Rising Ire 15(CrMe)
Panic of the Trembling Heart 15(CrMe)
Scent of Peaceful Slumber 20(ReMe)

The unseen Porter 10(ReTe)
Weilding the Invisible Sling 10(ReTe)
Supple Iron and Rigid Rope 10(MuTe)

Palm of Flame 5(CrIg)

So, with MT 5, Int 3, Aura 3*, and Inventive Genius +3, he could achieve Lab totals that look something like... [code] He Me Te Vi
6 6 6 4

Cr 11 31 31 31 29
In 0 (20) (20) (20) (18)
Mu 10 30 30 30 28
Pe 0 (20) (20) (20) (18)
Re 12 32 32 32 30[/code](* That's "standard" aura - don't know if yours is higher/lower, but it's a safe assumption for a pre-game start.)

Being able to crank out a Level 15 spell in a season, or a Level 20 in two, is perfectly respectable at this stage, esp for a non-specialist*. If he wants to live large and experiment, he can reliably get above 35 with most without worrying about the die result. (+3 more from IG, +2 minimum on the die roll.) Lab Total of 38 is the next cut point, so he can get a Level 25 spell in 2 seasons (13+13), and 40 obviously. But he's very close, so that's a good thing.

(* "Specialist" being someone investing in no more than 3-4 Arts; this character has twice that.)

But, he might want to consider doing just that either pre-gauntlet and/or in his seasons - taking fewer and "larger" spells pre-game start, and then inventing the easy ones that he can knock off in a season afterward. If at a loss, bump one of Target/Range/Duration of the spells he has - Eye to Voice or Voice to Sight, another magnitude of amount created/affected, maybe Individual to Group (+10), whatever. Better to have one Level 25 spell than two 10's and a 5, as far as making the best use of his later time (With Lab Totals of 30, it would take 6 seasons to invent one Level 25 spell, while only 2 seasons to invent two Level 15's, but IC considerations trump such, natch.) Having one big hammer in your toolbelt is never a bad plan, and now is the "best" time to grab it. :wink:

Lastly, Piercing Shaft of Wood & Wielding the Invisible Sling seem a bit redundant to each other, as do Tangle of Wood and Thorns & Trap of the Entwining Vines, but if you have your reasons, all good. (Or, take a risk and experiment with them - if one goes wrong, the other is there for a back-up, and if it goes right...) 8)