Valentin Belyea of Mercere

I always took an upper to upper-middle class living satandard for granted (doesn't it even say somewhere in covenants?).
I doubt magi have to worry about being able to pay a mug and and a maid. It is only when you truly start recruiting an army that money should play any role at all.
Just my 2c

EDIT: Or refine their labs. Or wear more than their fair share of clunky jewels.

EDIT: Just like star trek TNG (apart from Ferenginor)

Having dudes hang out gives a free virtue to your lab, +1 to Me or Co per person at a -1 safety, stacking infinitely. Having cleaning ladies gives a bonus to safety equal to the servant's Int/2 and another +1 Me. Can't have more than 1 maid but having a fairly bright (+3) or magically augmented (+5) maid and then two to three old men to sit around and talk politics in my lab would give a +4 to Me without costing me a season but would add at least +4 to the upkeep cost of my lab plus the cost of having a 4 higher population in the covenant. So it becomes an issue of cost. If I installed more safety features I could have more old men to sit around and shoot the shit to give me a higher mentem bonus.

The cost is at the covenant level not at the individual level, since as you pointed out no such level exists. If I were evil (i'm essentially not), I'm a powerful mentem mage I could force people to come to my lab and hang out until they starved, basically no cost at that point, it is very hard for a powerful mentem mage to get dinged for interfering with mundanes since no one remembers they were there.

To your other point. Ya, mundane wealth is very abstracted you generally don't notice. In my IRL game we usually say 1 mythic pound covers the costs for an adventure, one more every time you overcome an obstacle by buying it off. So failing a bargain check and getting ripped off by a boat captain, bribing a guard or government official all just round out to 1 Mythic Pound from the covenant.

[strike]Yeah, I see the chapter on Wealth in the Covenants book. But I'd have to read the entire thing to see what the story is on individual wealth for magi who, as has been stated, are provided for by the Covenant itself. So again, I'm not sure why it matters if you (Sir_Swindle) have these people in your lab and/or how you are paying for them?[/strike]

So, I get ninja'ed when I'm on conference calls. :slight_smile:

I'm going to say no to your wanting to have all these people in your lab for all the bonuses during your character post-gauntlet process. Without having a tangible cost that can be applied, I can't agree to the mechanical benefit.

Ya, I was going to do it in play when we actually had the covenant mechanics in place.

For my part, even though I have been unable to overcome choice paralysis much, started to stat up a laboratory with only 0 Upkeep. Each rise in Upkeep met by an equal decrease from a Flaw, and any permanent increase has to be justified by the Magus producing something worth qp, that can actually be sold or traded, and then using those qp to pay for the increased Upkeep. Or, in the case of an artisan/Verditius with 6 in an applicable craft, he can produce some/all of his own Lab Equipment.

It's hard to get a season free to buff up the lab, all my totals so far have been with a basic lab. I should probably have it set up for Mentem before the game starts. It'll take everything I got to set up the +5 stat Ritual (level 60 for it to be reusable).
Actually.... that isn't so bad I think I could work on it now but it would take me... 5 years? long enough that the exposure XP will increase my relevant arts to say the least.

Can we distill Vim Vis in the lab rather than taking the income? In the post-gauntlet time thing?

Yes, but you're kind of limited to the amount you can distill/extract based upon the Aura of the Covenant. And that leads me to a question: What happens if you extract 5 or more pawns in a single season? Or in a single year? Is the aura destroyed? How long does it take for the pawns you extracted to "refresh themselves" in the aura of the Covenant? And does the aura get impacted by doing this?

It does not, unless you want it to. A Magus with a 100 Lab Total can distill 10 vis from an Aura 1, so it's not limited in that sense. A high Aura, of course adds to the milking total, but an aura 7 (very high!) and a 1 (as low as it gets and have an effect) only have a difference of +6 on that total. It makes sense that excessive milking would weaken the Aura; however, the rules that lay this out are ..unwelcome by many, spelled out in RoP Magic.

In any case, distilling vis from auras is what every covenant in a vis poor Tribunal like Normandy has to resort to, and in this version of Semita Errabunda they undoubtedly should set up a Lab dedicated to this, and assign a season of such work to Apprentices, wayward Magi, and extremely talented Creo Vim specialists. As long as other Rituals like the Aegis are consistently performed, magical creatures call the Covenant home, and other Realms do not intrude, there's no reason for this to change, unless, again, you want to tell that sort of story. If you have multiple Magi extracting Vim every single season, ignoring adventures, etc, well, sounds like that is something that might happen.

Sir_Swindle, I highly recommend a Creo focused lab. That will work for your Creo rituals, Longevity Rituals, and Vis extraction.

I was noting that: distillation gives you only Vim Vis, but maybe more.

The number of pawns has little to do with the aura, only that the aura is part of the extraction formula. Without RoP:M rules, you can extract as much as you want. With RoP:M rules, you can extract as much as you want in a season, but multiple seasons of extraction in a year could damage an aura. For a really quick summary: number of rituals cast - number of times vis is extracted = value, and if value is >1 or <-1 there might (there is a chance) be an impact on the aura.

Ah, I understand now. Without diving into RoP for rules, I say distill all you want. Just be aware that I will take this into account as far as Aura goes in game, at a rate I'll have to determine.

During post-gauntlet, I'm going to say no. I've given you a way to earn Vis, in whatever form you want, one season a year; assume that earning Vis wages for Vim is you distilling/extracting it from the aura.

I get even Steven trades on Vis from the Mercers so it is less of an issue, especially since I can trade Cr Vis from my personal source sometimes.

Experimentation Simple: 1d10 5

Experimenting while inventing a spell.

Experimentation Stress 7LS: 1d10 6

Stress die Side effect result

Experimentation Simple 7LS Side effect: 1d10 2

Result = Minor flaw

Season 2
Exp Season 2 Simple, Extra Stress, result chart. Explosions after: 3#1d10 7 2 6
7 bonus, no side effects

Inventing +4 int Ritual.
Exp +4 Int, S1 Simple, Extra Stress, result chart. Explosions after: 3#1d10 4 10 7

Botch dice
+4 Int Botch dice: 6#1d10 3 6 5 2 4 9
No Botch, no side effect. Whew!

Season 2
Exp +4 Int, S1 Simple, Extra Stress, result chart. Explosions after: 3#1d10 4 10 10
Son of ....

Botch Dice
+4 Int Botch dice: 6#1d10 6 7 9 2 7 9
No Botch, no side effect. Whew!

Season 3
Exp Season 3 Simple, Extra Stress, result chart. Explosions after: 3#1d10 9 5 2
Blows the required lab total out of the water.
5=Side Effect
2=Minor Flaw

10 years post Apprenticeship.

"[size=150]Valentine of Mercer[/size]
Age: 30 (year 1220)
[size=120]Characteristics:[/size]* Intelligence (INT): +2

  • Perception (PER): +0
  • Strength (STR): -1
  • Stamina (STA): +0
  • Presence (PRE): -1
  • Communication (COM): +3
  • Dexterity (DEX): +0
  • Quickness (QIK): +0
  • Techniques: [list][*] Creo: 18
  • Intellego: 1
  • Muto: 1
  • Perdo: 1
  • Rego: 16
    ] Forms: * Animal: 5
  • Aquam: 1
  • Aurum: 1
  • Corpus: 5
  • Herbem: 1
  • Ignum: 5
  • Imaginum: 3
  • Mentum: 16
  • Terram: 5
  • Vim: 5
    [/:m][/list:u][size=120]Abilities:[/size] Artes Liberales: 1 (Arcane Texts)
  • Athletics: 2 i[/i]
  • Awareness: 2 i[/i]
  • Bargain: 1 i[/i]
  • Carouse: 2 i[/i]
  • Charm: 4 i[/i]
  • Concentration: 1 i[/i]
  • Finesse: 1 i[/i]
  • French: 5 (Academic Texts)
  • Guile: 1 i[/i]
  • Latin: 4 (Arcane Texts)
  • Magic Theory: 4 (Similar Spells)
  • Music: 1 i[/i]
  • Parma Magica: 1 i[/i]
  • Teaching: 2 i[/i]
    Virtues: * The Gift (Special,Hermetic)
  • Hermetic Magus (Free,Social)
  • Puissant Creo (Minor,Hermetic)
  • Major Magical Focus (Improving People) (Major,Hermetic)
  • Affinity With Creo (Minor,Hermetic)
  • Good Teacher (Minor,General)
  • Free Study (Minor,Hermetic)
  • Personal Vis Source (Minor,Hermetic) An oyster that he keeps in a bowl produces a pearl every Equinox that contains one pawn of Creo Vis
  • Inventive Genius (Minor,Hermetic)
  • Venus’ Blessing (Minor,General)
  • Inspirational (Minor,General)

Flaws: * Lecherous (Major,Personality)

  • Ambitious (Minor,Personality)
  • Dependent (Major,Story)
  • Difficult Spontaneous Magic (Minor,Hermetic)
  • Incompatible Arts (Pe Co) (Minor,Hermetic)
  • Fragile Constitution (Minor,General)


  • Creo Vis 10 Pawns
  • Mentem Summa Q15 L16
  • Rego Summa Q15 L16
  • Red Cap
  • Fine Travel Clothes
  • Walking Stick

Level Name Effect Tech/Form
20 Pilum of Fire Create a spear of fire dealing +15 damage Creo Ignum
5 Curse of the Unruly Tongue Target loses control of their tongue making them unable to speak Rego Corpus
5 Withered Assailant Disable your target's fighting arm Rego Corpus
15 Endurance of the Berserkers Ignore wound penalties for the duration of the effect. Rego Corpus
15 Blink Stride Teleport 50 paces Rego Corpus
10 Bind Wounds Creo Corpus
20 Chiurgeons Healing Touch Creo Corpus
10 Lamp Without Flame Creo Ignum
30 Seven-League Stride Transport yourself instantly up to 7 Leagues away. Great for getting over obstacles like walls or chasms, getting out of a pickle in general, or who knows what else. Always arrive facing backwards. Rego Corpus
15 Unraveling the Fabric of Everything Rego Vim
15 Demons eternal oblivion Perdo Vim
55 Intellect of the +4 Permanently increase Intelligence by one, but to no more than +4. Int goes to -1 for diameter after casting. Creo Mentum
35 Presence of the Followers Permanently increase Presence by one, but to no more than 0. Creo Mentum
20 Ring of Motivation Instill a "Studious +5" personality trait in the occupants of the circle. Creo Mentum

Time Tacking Age 24-35

Activity Followed by XP gains. Actual XP from Affinity and Placement of Exposure XP in Parentheses
Take out 10p Mercere loan, Buy 16/15 Mentum Book (Bargain 2) 2
Read Mentum 15
Read Mentum 15
Earn Vis (3) (2 Vim) 2
Read Mentum 15
Read Mentum 15
Read Mentum 15
Read Mentum 15
Read Mentum 15
Read Mentum 15
Study Creo (15) 10
Study Creo (15) 10
Study Creo (15) 10
Study Creo (15) 10
Study Creo (15) 10
Invent +0 Presence Spell (2 Me) 2
Invent +0 Presence Spell (2 Me) 2
Earn Vis (3) (2 Vim) 2
Buy 16/15 Rego Book (Bargain 2) 2
Read Rego, pay back Mercere 15
Read Rego 15
Read Rego 15
Read Rego 15
Read Rego 15
Read Rego 15
Read Rego 15
Read Rego 15
Read Rego 15
"Invent Seven League Stride (2 Co) Risk 0 Experimentation 17 Progress
5 on SImple Die, 6 for Extraoirdinary (Side Effect, 2 Minor Flaw side effect." 2
"Invent Seven League Stride (2 Co) Risk 0 Experimentation
7 on Simple die, 2 on extra (no effect), 19 progress spell invented." 2
Study Magic Theory 10
Study Magic Theory 10
Refine Lab Rolled 6 (2 MT) 2
Instill Lesser Feature Creo Bonus in Lab (2Cr) 2
Invent Ring of Motivation (2 Me) 2
"Invent +4 Int (2 Me), R0 Experiment
26 Progress, 4 Simp, 0 Exp no botch" 2
"Invent +4 Int (2 Me), R0 Experiment
26 Progress, 4 Simp, 0 Exp no botch" 2
"Invent +4 Int (2 Me), R0 Experiment
31 Progress, 9 Simp,5 Exp (Side Effect), 2 minor flaw" 2
Parma Training 10
Bargain Training 10

For Lecherous and Ambitious, please indicate whether they are Major or Minor; having both monikers in there makes it hard to understand which version you've got.

You missed Hermetic Magus as a Virtue. It's free, but I just want consistency. :slight_smile:

Other than that, I think we're ok here.

Cool. Done.

You are OK with my description of the Personnal Vis Source?

I'm going to update with my actual Vis holdings in a sec.

Why wouldn't I be cool with that? It's innocuous, and provides you the benefit of the Virtue you took. It's also right out in the open for a story seed to take it...

I wrote it to be agreeable. Just making sure you saw it in there and knew and approved of what kind of Vis I was getting.
Technique Vis sources are hard and some ST's might have said that was only appropriate as an Aquam source, so I would have to go back to the drawing board.

EDIT also note I only have 10 Vis now. I forgot to pay for the second book.