Vibria of Flambeau (development)

Excellent, makes sense Marko. Based upon that I think the effect might be:

  • Base 20 to "change into an aquatic for flying animal of max size +1",
  • +2 D: Sun. Perhaps this could be Conc instead with the device maintaining concentration. That works out roughly the same level anyway.
  • +2 mags for an additional 6 size ranks. A size 7 creature is massive, so perhaps a Size:4 (costing +1 instead) is enough?
  • +1 for a limited set of physical abilities. The saga might say that this is overly punitive in design, so it could be dropped but really depends on what is chosen. I like the idea of acidic blood, inbuilt weapons like spikes and claws, and a venom tipped tail.

This is what I wrote in the blog:

With consideration for the complexity being rolled into the size adjustment, and Concentration, the spell effect changes downward to MuCo/An 35.

Might I suggest dropping Tremere lore? Maybe make that a specialization of Order of Hermes Lore. And you should drop some xp into Mythic Europe Lore. Know a tiny bit of the big picture.

I was thinking not quite as big. More like a drake, Size +2 or +3. And it is up to Peregrine, but I am imagining more of a classic drake/wyvern shape
Base 20, +2 Sun, +1 Size, +1 cover my ass

Vibria's seasonal activities for the time since her last update. All this is already on the Magi Planner, and will be going on Vibria's Advancement page when I get around to it.
[tr][td]Autumn 1235[/td]
[td]Takes sabbatical from Andorra, begins her walkabout with Signmundo.[/td]
[tr][td]Autumn 1235-Autumn 1237[/td]
[td]Meeting the Vavel Dragon and Bride of the Vavel Dragon threads, two years of wandering Europe.[/td]
[td]A lot of things, that were spent in earlier posts.[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Winter 1238[/td]
[td]Returns to Andorra. Wedding, honeymoon.[/td]
[td]Tbd (probably 2xp Exposure in something).[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Spring-Summer 1238[/td]
[td]Rebuilding her lab.[/td]
[td]2 seasons of Exposure in Magic Theory (4xp total).[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Autumn 1238[/td]
[td]Study On Transmutation.[/td]
[td]13 xp Muto.[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Winter 1239[/td]
[td]Has a son, Artur.[/td]
[td]2 xp Exposure (tbd).[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Spring 1239[/td]
[td]Study On Transmutation.[/td]
[td]13 xp Muto.[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Summer 1239[/td]
[td]Study A Mystical Guide to the Humours.[/td]
[td]15 xp Corpus.[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Autumn 1239[/td]
[td]Study Dominion Over God’s Creatures.[/td]
[td]9 xp Animal.[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Winter 1240[/td]
[td]Study De Animalibus.[/td]
[td]17 xp Animal.[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Spring 1240[/td]
[td]Study De Animalibus.[/td]
[td]17 xp Animal.[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Summer 1240[/td]
[td]Study On Transmutation.[/td]
[td]13 xp Muto.[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Autumn 1240[/td]
[td]Study A Mystical Guide to the Humours.[/td]
[td]15 xp Corpus.[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Winter 1241[/td]
[td]Study On Transmutation.[/td]
[td]13 xp Muto.[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Spring 1241[/td]
[td]Study De Animalibus.[/td]
[td]17 xp Animal.[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Summer 1241[/td]
[td]Study Corpus Hermeticum.[/td]
[td]12 xp Magic Theory.[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Autumn 1241[/td]
[td]Has a daughter, Maria.[/td]
[td]2 xp Exposure (tbd).[/td][/tr][/table]
Even with all those months and years studying Corpus, Animal, and Muto (and a season on Magic Theory), her solo Lab Total for the Dragon-Form spell is still only a 28.

Sometime very soon, either in Winter of 1242 (before the Ancient History thread) or after, she is going to inquire about having a Longevity Ritual made, for herself and for Jaksic. (He has a Supernatural Ability, I believe, so I don't think his LR would be halved.)

Her children's names were carefully chosen to be names in both Catalan and Polish (according to Behind the


I think you are right about the LR for Jaksic. The RAW states "Non-Magical People" and I think Jack does not qualify as truly non-magical.

As for your Lab Total, I suggest a Familiar or an Apprentice, or maybe both. And Lab customization can easily jump you up another seven points or thereabouts. Another shape changing spell, a traditional sort from RAW that we have or can get a Lab Text for, I do believe that would add it's magnitude to your LT. As an enchantment or familiar empowerment, the option for Expiry and the multiplier is an option. It is within range of a few more years, I am certain.
Or perhaps the hope of a boost or text could be inspiration for a future story :wink:

Or you could try a Mystery.
Mountain Wilderness Lore (Pyrenees) is part of the backstory of this saga, and has always been a quiet option. Your grandfather has hinted at that long ago. Very subtle. But he was not always a shapeshifter.
I think he has mentioned something about the Tarragon Mists.
However, that option will still take a couple of years.

Vibria is at least eight seasons away from being able to take an apprentice of her own (that's how many Arts she has that are <5).

She might be able to bind a Familiar at the end of the cycle. Her best TF is Creo Ignem, with a LT of 40. She could bind a Size 2/MM 5, Size 1/MM 10, or Size 0/MM 15 creature. Hmmm...possible a drake about the size of a deer? (And I could call him "Gleep"). Finding a suitable familiar would be a seasonal adventure. Winter of 1242 is probably out because (1) winter...ugh, and (2) she just had Maria and doesn't want to go haring off just yet.

I'd have to really go over the lab features to see what can give her the most bang for Spell Invention, Muto, or Corpus. She could Refine her Lab that winter and gain the Virtue that way.

She can do Cloak of Black Feathers in one season at the end of the cycle (i.e. Winter 1242) from a lab text if she pushes herself (not experimenting, more likely Overtime, as she only needs a +1). And she can stay inside where it's nice and toasty warm.

headdesk I can't believe I forgot all about the Tarragon Mists. That's worth exploring, as is this Mountain Wilderness Lore (Pyrenees) that never clicked to me.

You could also try for a smaller animal. A drake (size +2) or a Wyvern (size +1) would be level 35 at Sun Duration. (base 20. +2 Sun, +1 stuff). You would have all of the physical attributes, but none of the powers. That is okay since Vibria has her own powers.
Both of these creatures are in your lineage. If you Experiment, I will grant you a +3 Sympathy bonus. Dare you risk another explosion so soon?
Dealing with the mists means dealing with your grandfather, with your cousins, and your nephew the dragon-cat.
No need to alter development plans. This will be roleplaying.

This means that it ain't a personnal power, to me. You're trying to use it since Personnal power is cheaper than Lesser or Greater, but this is just semantics IMO.

Also, Spells that use Rego to unfaillingly propel something, like Wielding the Invisible Sling, have their range to the target, since the magic must guide the missile all the way. Vilano spells can make to with a range to the thing (so, something you touch), but then, you need an aiming roll.
This seems like the worst of both worlds: Magical Flame you need to aim AND penetrate with.

=> I'd go with a straight Lesser Power with Voice range (so, lvl 15), just like any dragon's breath.
Keep it Variable. I don't think that damage should decrease with range, too, and it adds uneeded complexity. It doesn't doesn't compensate the low cost for the range (although the double dip of Penetration + Aiming might)
OTOH, for me, base damage should be 10 + CrIg.

You don't need to bother with the flame part if you've got a firebreathing power, or can just cast PoF, even it it's without gestures.
For the flight, it's IMO covered if you use the "bird" base guideline.

OTOH, you'd need to add size magnitudes, unless you want to be a small dragon.
You might want to add magnitudes for complexity (tough hide, tail, claws...)

Look at existing spells to change into an animal :wink:

Ok, you guys arrived at the exact same conclusion. That's great! :smiley:

Gotta go, sorry, in a hurry!

The power is an (almost) exact duplicate of the fire breath power of a Typical Firedrake, created three-and-a-half years ago. Rego projection has been long established. "Voice" makes no sense in this context.

But just to cover all bases...

As a Lesser Power & Variable Power, taken as Minor Virtues...
CrIg5 (Base 4, +1 Rego for projection)
Lesser Power (5 levels), Improved Power (-1 cost, +2 Init, 5xp Mastery)
Variable Power (based on Art Scores)

Same results :slight_smile:

Or to be strict...

As a Lesser Power & Variable Power, taken as Minor Virtues...
CrIg10 (Base 5, +1 Rego for projection)
Init Quick -2 (she has to take a big breath first, so maybe a lesser penalty for smaller breaths doing less damage?
Lesser Power (10 levels), Improved Power (-2 cost, 5xp Mastery)
Variable Power (based on Art Scores)
The reason I am tinkering with these ideas is because I am working on updating Maurice :smiley:

It was probably said above, but don't you need to add mags for the range to the maximum target size? It's at least Touch, likely Voice.

Magnitudes for range and Individual Target size are two different things. In this case, a Creo Ignem would only be the base-sized individual, as the Spell Target is the flame she's creating, which is less than the size of a large bonfire; it doesn't matter if she casts the magically-created spell at a normal-sized human or a barn, because that's a different kind of target (attack target, not spell target). It does get confusing, sometimes.

I get that, and worded my statement poorly. you still need to potentially pay for both/either according to the design. If it's based on hermetic guidelines fire creation still needs to be range +1 Touch. Most CrIg spells are either Voice or Touch according to how far the thing to be burnt is. Even allowing that she spits the fire, it still needs to be created as Touch and wouldn't be spit more than directly in front of her. How do you create fire at Personal?
Surely? If I'm being thick I apologise, but I think its needed. Unless the powers ignore the normal RDT of spells, in which case make it Sight.

The fire is created in her lungs. If she was not immune to fire, that alone would kill her.
The Rego requisite projects the fire out to a distance of paces equal to damage. "Fire Casting" is a standard thing that has been done around here. It will require an Aiming roll, but can hit multiple targets in the line of fire.
It is basically the same way I designed fire breathing for dragons years ago for this saga.

Fair enough. Its different to what I've seen elsewhere and RAW. Fixer had the right of it in terms of a sub-power above (ReIg 4 unnatural +1 touch, or +2 Voice?).


Using Rego to move an existing flame is nothing new. See "Leap of Fire" for a RAW exemple.

Rego can be used to move anything over a distance, but, as the thing is moved by Magic, it is blocked by Magic Resistance. Further, the range must be enough for you to reach your target, like Wielding the Invisible Sling or the Crystal Dart.

Now, you can use Rego with Touch range to project things further than Touch range. This is the principle of Vilano attacks. The thing is not carried by Magic, and thus, if mundane, ignores MR, BUT you must succeed on an aiming roll to hit.

In short, and this is a core principle, either:

  • You need the Range to reach, you've got autohit and MR (Wielding the Invisible Sling, Leap of the Fire)
  • You don't need the range to reach the target, you must aim but may bypass MR if throwing a non-magical thing (Invisible Sling of Vilano).

Now, I'm not sure you can use Vilano tactics with Fire, but I've no problem with you ruling that way. This means that you could:

  • Touch a mundane fire and project it, hiting with an aiming roll and ignoring MR (no magic anywhere)
  • Touch a magical fire and project it, hiting with an aiming roll but needing to bypass MR (the fire is magical). This'd be the case with Vibria.

What bugs me here is that you're using Vilano tactics to have a lower spell level (Touch range instead of Voice +), thus saving a magnitude, but also ignores the aiming roll. This means that one could just touch a mundane fire (or water, or air, or...) and project it at anyone, without an aiming roll or any need to penetrate.

I'm sorry, I don't want to offense you, but this is just wrong, especially for powers, which aren't ampered by the fact that requisites may lower penetration.

This is akin to "I'm taking a power with voice range, but writing that it uses Rego and thus saving one magnitude for penetration without any drawback".

By RAW, totally. Every published firebreath works like this, every spell does, too.

Now, the problem IMO is that I think Marko wanted Vibria to have a great power (well worth a major virtue!!!) with only 2 virtue points, so he... did stuff in order to have what he wanted, even if it meant trampling a little over the rules, with:

  • A personnal power that essentially acts on others at will
  • Saving a magnitude by saying "This is Rego, so Touch range is enough to reach Voice range".

IMO, it can be done as a more-or-less RAW power, it'll just be a little less awesome:

  • Either a Lesser CrIg with Voice range, creating a magical Fire which needs to penetrate
  • Or a Lesser Cr(Re)Ig with Touch range, creating and projecting a magical Fire which needs to penetrate and hit.

I like this.

Let's go back to basics.

Lesser Power.
CrIg base 4 (create a Fire which does +5 damage), +2 Voice = lvl 10.
Base Might cost: 02 (thus 1 fatigue), base Init - 4.
She's got 3 extra magnitudes, which she can use to bring it to Might Cost 00 (No fatigue) and Init -3
Add Variable Power, to let her add her CrIg score to damage: This becomes CrIg + 05, with base 0 penetration
As far as I can tell, we're more-or-less the boundaries of the RAW, and it's simpler, too.

Now, we want to add 2 things:

  • The ability to trade damage for penetration
  • The ability to trade damage for quickness, at -05 damage for +1 qik maybe?

IMO, this is way enough for yet minor virtue. We can do this in 2 fashions:

  • No one sees anything, let's just throw it in
  • Give her a minor flaw related to her draconic nature. What I'd do is give her Warped Magic for this, as I think it fits well with her becoming closer to her draconinc roots and having greater power as such. Like, when using magic, especially fire magic, she gets more draconic looking: redder skin, serpentine eyes, talons, maybe scales... A little like this for weak spells or this for more powerful magic

To be clear, I don't care if the fire breath power is major or a few minors; just that it makes sense in the mechanics on how it works.
Suggest - Give her the power as a major, but it's a little unreliable until she performs a story, or equivalent of a mystery cult initiation?

There is a few things you are missing. The original power several years ago was created as Creo with a Rego requisite. Also, the requisite adds a magnitude. Further, the effect is both aimed and needs to penetrate.
Finally, why did you not call out the design several years ago? Why now?

Taking a step back. We are getting bogged down in a struggle between mechanics and aesthetics. And we both like to debate. And we are both always right :mrgreen:
What is important is that the power is balanced in the context of being playable. Which, IMO, it is.
The original power is quoted as follows...

A Mythic Blood power, by my calculation, is the equivalent of two Virtue points. The intent, then as now, is to create a power that mimics fire breath. Starting from the lungs and projecting outward to a limited distance, about half the potential of Voice, and streaming to catch everything between the point of origin and the end limit.
Think along the lines of Pilium of Fire as described in 4th edition. There are three main differences between the original and new version.
Damage is based on Art scores (which turns out to be 21, only one point higher than the original design)
Penetration is initially much lower, at least until Art scores increase, but the Penetration ability can be used in combination
She can get an extra oomph by spending Fatigue, adding the lowest art score twice (Creo 10).